Trust me I do slow down if it is icy, and I have my abs fuse in. In the instances I described above, I was the only one on the road, driving at a reasonable speed on a straight road. My point being that I couldn't stop in a hurry even if I had too. Abs in these situations makes braking completely unpredictable, and can double or even triple stopping distances

In traffic it doesn't take much to upset the brakes on these trucks. All it takes is a pothole, set of railway tracks, or for one tire it lock up on a patch of ice, the abs kicks in and suddenly stopping distances are dramatically increased.

Abs brakes add a whole other level of unpredictability, that I just don't want when trying to drive on bad roads, and that's why I choose to remove my fuse.

 

"I cannot believe how many people support the abs brakes on these trucks. Sure under some conditions the abs may help breaking performance for some drivers. The people who argue for abs obviously haven’t experienced just how disastrous these abs brakes can be. I have owned my truck for almost three years, and have not had one case where I said, “boy I ‘m sure glad I have abs brakes” However I have had at least a dozen instances where I have said “wow good thing there’s nobody in front of me, cause there’s no way I’m stopping” and then there as been a couple of near miss accidents, and I won’t mention what I said in those cases."

Driving down I5 one day in the #1 lane, heading out on vacation with the family with a full truck, I was passing a semi doing a bit over 70 mph, when I saw someone in the median. While watching the car I started mumbling to myself "don't do it', don't do it", and then "##@$*^&%$ they're doing it ! ", as they pulled onto the highway right in front of me. I heard the semi hit his exhaust brake, his tires squealing as he headed as far as he could for the side of the road, as I stood on the brakes as the median at that speed was no good. It was hot and dry out so traction was good, and the truck quickly shut down with nary a quiver, barely avoiding hitting the car from behind. As I recall I ended up in 3rd gear. From what I've seen on older pickups a couple of times in similar situations, assuming that they didn't have ABS, their tires lock up, the rear end kicks around, and they end up off of the road, sometimes bouncing off of stuff on the way. From my perspective ABS worked just fine in this situation.

So far I don't have complaints about the brakes in the winter, I guess because I also downshift and use engine braking, in addition to driving slower as conditions warrant, I give myself more stopping distance between cars, have weight in the bed, use studded snow tires, and still carry chains as I've still needed then once in awhile. I also have the habit of still doing a slow pump of the brakes, as riding the brakes on the hills around here just glazes them, they then don't work as well, need more pressure, and wear out more quickly.

Does anyone else use downshifting and engine braking to slow down ? Doing so bypasses the ABS system, at least partially offsetting potential problems with the system.

 

I would hope that most of us would utilize engine braking when slowing, of course that's not always useful during the panic stop you describe. You mention the road was warm and traction was good that day, so I would suggest that your ABS didn't even engage. Your truck stopped straight and true without it. Now imagine that one of your rear tires hit a couple of specs of gravel during the panic stop. No big deal, but it was enough to trigger an ABS engagement. The ABS shuts down the rear brakes (pretty much completely)- it's actually programmed to pulse the brakes and maintain 21% lockup, but the system is too slow and can't recover nearly fast enough. As a result you can't stop in time because your vehicle won't brake.
Please don't be offended, I was merely relating your experience to a couple that I've had.

 

Let's see, you were driving on a smooth interstate, driving straight, and had to make a panic stop on dry asphalt with good traction. I'm sorry but any good driver would be able to make that stop just fine in a vehicle without abs brakes.

Although abs gives an inexperienced drive more control, it is wrong to assume they reduce stopping distances. I've tested this on my truck, and have proved (to myself anyways) that even on dry pavement the abs doesn't reduce stopping distances.

 

"Let's see, you were driving on a smooth interstate, driving straight, and had to make a panic stop on dry asphalt with good traction. I'm sorry but any good driver would be able to make that stop just fine in a vehicle without abs brakes."

Not in the typical older pickup, without abs. As mentioned I've seen such trucks in a panic situation; tires instantly lock up and the rear end kicks around. One older Chevy did a 270, bounced off of a guard rail across the road in front a semi, and when using the guardrail on the other side of the road to stop folded a hub while wrinkling the front end, all in less than about 2 seconds. With 14in disc brakes all around like we have one should be able to lock the wheels at will.

The typical pickup seems to be as bad as a motorcycle in a panic stop, as both get real light in the rear. The standard motorcycle accident is someone making a left turn in front a bike, the bike rider grabs lots of brake, front and rear, the rear end locks up, the bike goes down and slides into the vehicle. I drove motorcycles for 20 years, and quickly learned that ABS at speed meant leaving the rear brake alone. I practiced shutting down from speed on a regular basis, goosing the bike to 120 mph on the off ramp then hitting the brakes, making sure that everything was still working as it should. With pickups one doesn't have front and rear brakes.

Anyway, as mentioned before a switch would be fun to play with, but I'll not disable it.

http://www.trucktrend.com/features/t...iving_in_snow/

Snow Driving 101

...Nikolas recommends engine braking whether or not you have ABS, which means slowing down and leaving plenty of room between you and the next car....

 

Lose The Atititude Dude. ABS works fine. Just learn how to use it.

 

Do cars with ABS stop more quickly than cars without? ABS is designed to help the driver maintain control of the vehicle during emergency braking situations, not make the car stop more quickly. ABS may shorten stopping distances on wet or slippery roads and many systems will shorten stopping distances on dry roads. On very soft surfaces, such as loose gravel or unpacked snow, an ABS system may actually lengthen stopping distances. In wet or slippery conditions, you should still make sure you drive carefully, always keep a safe distance behind the vehicle in front of you, and maintain a speed consistent with the road conditions.(Not in my own words, but exactly what I'm trying to say.)

 

I think owning a "diesel" pickup is starting to hit the "foo-foo" yuppie market as well. They couldn't drive their Grande Cherokees or Hummers, so decided that a diesel pickup is the new trend.

And, if your flame suit is on for your mileage, wait 'til what I have to say. I've had my '07 since Dec. 27 --- I curently have 858 km on it only, when I left home in the comapany truck --- that's just plain shameful.

 

John,

I totally understand your point, and like I said earlier, I agree that with the proper driver, not having ABS can be very advantageous in many situations. I do drive in snow for 4 months of the year, although not nearly as much as there used to be! We just don't get the snow we used to. It usually would snow 12+ inched 4 or 5 times a year and have 4-8 another dozen times, but now you get 1 or two big snows and "dustings" all the other times. I can honestly say, that I have yet to reach a situation in bad weather where my ABS has engaged. Maybe I am just more cautious or use propper exhaust/engine braking, or it has just been dumb luck, but I have not had the normal, pedal-to-the-floor experience you get when ABS is in full action. I do think that the SCCA requirement was pertinent because of the fact that it is those kinds of drivers who understand vehicle dynamics and understand that whena vehicle starts to loose traction, the world does not end; in fact, the fun just begins. The problem is, that this percentage of the drivers out there is very small; hence my comment.

P.S. No offense taken and I would love to spank your Miata around in the Lambo. You forget, this is not your grandpa's Lambo. She's 600 lbs. lighter, 100HP more powerful, and has RWD!!!!

...But Diesel must come with me. We don't go anywhee without him!

 

Below is a link to a study on whether ABS was 'causing' people to run off of the road. Since ABS resulted in shorter stopping distances on surfaces tested except for gravel, the conclusion was no. The stopping distance on gravel increased a bit less than 30%, so if people here are complaining about 300% to 400% increases in stopping distances they probably should be addressing other problems first before disabling ABS. Again, the increased stopping on gravel, snow would be included, suggests that switch would be helpful in some situations.

Another item that I hadn't considered is that there are probably a lot of complaints about ABS from people with auto trannys, as I'll guess that the autos don't provide much engine braking. If that's the case then be sure to mention in auto vs manual tranny threads that another benefit of a stick is that it allows one to engine brake in situations where ABS could lengthen stopping distances.

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/vrtc/ca...99-01-1287.pdf

 

I had forgotten to mention that. In a panic stop (with or without ABS) you would want an auto in Neutral and not in gear. For us manual guys, it's easy because we just push the clutch in.

I remember the first time I did a panic stop in my M5; we got up to about 110 and them jammed on the brakes the first time with it in 6th and the 2nd with the clutch in. What a difference neutral makes! It was a little squirrelly and scary with it in in gear because the engine is still driving the rear wheels.

 

Thanks for providing that link. It does confirm what I've known all along. Abs can increase stopping distances on some surfaces, proving that abs is a compromise. It is a compromise that I don't want to make. I'd much rather give up a bit of braking performance on dry or wet surfaces to have full braking potential on less then ideal road surfaces.

Real life driving conditions have not been adequately portrayed in this test. The roads I drive on have bumps, potholes, frost heaves, railway tracks, ice, snow, sand and gravel patches, etc. It is on these surfaces that a lot of accidents occur. I know what effects these road conditions/hazards have on my truck. I hate the fact that abs brakes on my truck can dramatically increase stopping distances, when stopping performance is already hindered by a less then ideal surface.

 

Amen, 6 2 Carl.

 

Having driven in snow for many years and done quite a bit of off roading for work I can tell you from experience on certain surfaces as has been mentioned you can definately stop better without ABS. I finally pulled the fuse after almost going off the side of a slippery mountain trail because the ABS would not allow the tires to dig in and I kept picking up speed.
If you stop faster with ABS by all means keep it activated. If there are circumstances that make it safer to disable then by all means do that as well!!

 

I can't say anything more than...yep!