Power steering fluid leak
09-01-2010, 11:52 PM
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Power steering fluid leak
I am having a problem with a power steering fluid leak. Fill pump and drive the truck for days and sometimes weeks without loosing a drop of fluid. Then one day I drive it, pull into a parking place, shut down and walk around to front of truck and have a huge and growing puddle of fluid. Reservoir will be empty. Refill and repeat. As best as I can tell the fluid is coming out of the filler neck of the reservoir. Have had the pump replaced and the hoses have been tested. Help please.
09-02-2010, 01:33 AM
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is the reservoir been replaced or checked. seen them, split at the neck and temps rise they seep, but never seen that ammount missing. could you clean the outside and put in uv dye and check with a black light.
09-13-2010, 12:12 AM
#4
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slight diversion from topic
JUST replaced the steering box and PS pump, plus lines in the truck in signature. Redhead box, carquest rebuilt pump (old one was functioning, but figured what the heck, put it all in new and know how old it is).
Used truck to pull the five-horse trailer down to our year end show. Coming home, steering suddenly went VERY hard - no power assist to speak of, though it would "take up" momentarily and then go hard again. (I was riding in back with spooky filly, hubby was driving - report on cel phone). Total trip was about 110 miles and mostly freeway. Got home dropped the trailer (THAT was interesting getting it backed into its slot with no PS), parked truck in front of shop and took a look-see.
Bone dry reservoir. pressure line "slightly" loose, so snugged it down and happily went to fill it up again to check - fluid comes out the bottom as fast as it was poured in!
Dove under truck with rag and light and see it coming out ABOVE the return line, up near where the hard pipe is welded to the reservoir body. Take a wild guess and think it's cracked at the weld.
Go down to NAPA and get another pump (carquest says NO guarantee on this part). NAPA one doesn't look the same, so have not put it in.
HOWEVER.... in wiping things down again to see about disconnecting hoses, I find that there's a HOLE in the back of the reservoir sheet metal - that used to have a little plastic plug in it. There's another one just like it down by the pressure line fitting, but that one still has plastic plug in it - seeping fluid, but not pouring out open hole like the upper one.
Now I'm getting p-o'ed. I did NOT do the install on this, but as I get out instructions (yes, I read instructions) I see they advise to put in a plug for these threaded places if not used for a mounting stud on "some applications".
Call parts store I bought the thing from - no, they can't tell me what size of plug it takes - young pup does (after third call) get the one they have instock down and look at the hole - says it's not threaded. I beg to differ - sheet metal is NOT threaded, but the casting inside sure as blazes is, as I have my finger in it right now!
Getting madder by the minute, I rummage through 60 pounds of oddball bolts and finally come up with ONE that is the perfect size and thread. With this in hand I show up at the carquest store right before closing. Figure I can get two bolts right size and length with a couple of washers and o-rings and MAKE seals for the darn thing since they really don't have plugs......
Now, though... Has driving that darn thing with a dry pump that distance toasted the pump? Do I really have to replace it after all this stuff? This is an honest question, I do not know what damage may have happened - and what about that brand new Red-Head steering box? Can this stupid thing have ruined my brand new gearbox too?
Please, I do need to know what's up. If Infidel is out there he's probably laughing his butt off about now.
Big sigh.
Kate (who is getting too darn old to work on trucks)
Used truck to pull the five-horse trailer down to our year end show. Coming home, steering suddenly went VERY hard - no power assist to speak of, though it would "take up" momentarily and then go hard again. (I was riding in back with spooky filly, hubby was driving - report on cel phone). Total trip was about 110 miles and mostly freeway. Got home dropped the trailer (THAT was interesting getting it backed into its slot with no PS), parked truck in front of shop and took a look-see.
Bone dry reservoir. pressure line "slightly" loose, so snugged it down and happily went to fill it up again to check - fluid comes out the bottom as fast as it was poured in!
Dove under truck with rag and light and see it coming out ABOVE the return line, up near where the hard pipe is welded to the reservoir body. Take a wild guess and think it's cracked at the weld.
Go down to NAPA and get another pump (carquest says NO guarantee on this part). NAPA one doesn't look the same, so have not put it in.
HOWEVER.... in wiping things down again to see about disconnecting hoses, I find that there's a HOLE in the back of the reservoir sheet metal - that used to have a little plastic plug in it. There's another one just like it down by the pressure line fitting, but that one still has plastic plug in it - seeping fluid, but not pouring out open hole like the upper one.
Now I'm getting p-o'ed. I did NOT do the install on this, but as I get out instructions (yes, I read instructions) I see they advise to put in a plug for these threaded places if not used for a mounting stud on "some applications".
Call parts store I bought the thing from - no, they can't tell me what size of plug it takes - young pup does (after third call) get the one they have instock down and look at the hole - says it's not threaded. I beg to differ - sheet metal is NOT threaded, but the casting inside sure as blazes is, as I have my finger in it right now!
Getting madder by the minute, I rummage through 60 pounds of oddball bolts and finally come up with ONE that is the perfect size and thread. With this in hand I show up at the carquest store right before closing. Figure I can get two bolts right size and length with a couple of washers and o-rings and MAKE seals for the darn thing since they really don't have plugs......
Now, though... Has driving that darn thing with a dry pump that distance toasted the pump? Do I really have to replace it after all this stuff? This is an honest question, I do not know what damage may have happened - and what about that brand new Red-Head steering box? Can this stupid thing have ruined my brand new gearbox too?
Please, I do need to know what's up. If Infidel is out there he's probably laughing his butt off about now.
Big sigh.
Kate (who is getting too darn old to work on trucks)
09-13-2010, 09:58 AM
#5
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I'm not laughing at all, understand the poor quality of auto parts store parts nowdays.
The pump could most likely run dry for a couple minutes before it's toast.
I would think the steering box wouldn't let you drive far with no fluid unless your entire trip was straight.
Think the box could last for a long time dry if the truck wasn't moving.
Don't think o-rings will seal the hole because unless there is a recessed seat to squeeze them into they will just bulge out when you tighten the bolt down.
You might be better off wrapping the heck out of the bolts with teflon tape.
The pump could most likely run dry for a couple minutes before it's toast.
I would think the steering box wouldn't let you drive far with no fluid unless your entire trip was straight.
Think the box could last for a long time dry if the truck wasn't moving.
Don't think o-rings will seal the hole because unless there is a recessed seat to squeeze them into they will just bulge out when you tighten the bolt down.
You might be better off wrapping the heck out of the bolts with teflon tape.
09-13-2010, 11:42 AM
#7
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God Bless you, Infidel (& thanks Robert)
Well, guess I'd better plan on jerking out that pump then. FWIW, I don't think that teflon tape on threads into the inner (pump body) casting would make any sort of seal on the darn reservoir sheet metal - the only thing holding the fluid in was the cheesy plastic hole plugs they use to keep dirt out - painted over, they really do disappear. Grumbling.... darn hands are hurting today anyways.
Since the pump is about a foot higher than the steering gearbox, I'm guessing there is still fluid inside THAT part of the system, just no pump pressure to help it move. It's the notion of a bunch of metal shavings getting into that brand new Red-Head box that freaks me out. She came home over a hundred miles on zero fluid - armstrong steering, but thankfully mostly freeway until we got home.
In doing some searching I did find an archived thread from this forum,
https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...s-t111248.html
in which is mentioned a magnetic filter (for transmission) the was to be installed in return hose - that sounds like a good idea at this point, to pick up any floaters and debris from the pump out of circulating fluid.
Since the pump is about a foot higher than the steering gearbox, I'm guessing there is still fluid inside THAT part of the system, just no pump pressure to help it move. It's the notion of a bunch of metal shavings getting into that brand new Red-Head box that freaks me out. She came home over a hundred miles on zero fluid - armstrong steering, but thankfully mostly freeway until we got home.
In doing some searching I did find an archived thread from this forum,
https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...s-t111248.html
in which is mentioned a magnetic filter (for transmission) the was to be installed in return hose - that sounds like a good idea at this point, to pick up any floaters and debris from the pump out of circulating fluid.
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09-13-2010, 03:18 PM
#9
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Sinking feeling... that photo looks NOTHING like either the pump that came out of it first, nor the one that NAPA sent home with me (different than the one replaced with Carquest part).
There is mention in instruction sheet of needing to take out assembly in the port you are showing IF lines are not compatible.... but the FSM warns against taking it out! says you won't get it back together again once it explodes or some such thing.
NAPA part looks like the Cardone, third one down on this link
http://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/199...ring_pump.html
The one that came out and the carquest part look like the top two on that page....
Obviously I am not getting this done today.
There is mention in instruction sheet of needing to take out assembly in the port you are showing IF lines are not compatible.... but the FSM warns against taking it out! says you won't get it back together again once it explodes or some such thing.
NAPA part looks like the Cardone, third one down on this link
http://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/199...ring_pump.html
The one that came out and the carquest part look like the top two on that page....
Obviously I am not getting this done today.
09-13-2010, 09:58 PM
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Halfpint, the pump is imbedded into the reservoir. Your original pump had two bolts holding the assy together. Rebuild pumps from most auto parts stores do not come with the bolts, they have the plastic plugs you found. When the pump was changed the installer needed to remove the bolts from the old pump and install them in the new pump.
My original pump lasted over 400k. I replaced it with a lifetime warranty rebuild...........4 times in less than 100k. I finally bought a new OEM from Mopar4Less and couldn't be more satisfied. A new one will come complete, including the cap. The Saginaw pumps we use have been around for over 40 years and are installed in a lot of different applications (my '67 Chev C20 has one) so there is no telling what internals are inside the rebuilds. If you love replacing pumps over and over, stick with the crappy rebuilds, or you could spend a few dollars more and get one that is dependable and made for your truck.
One extra note. More than likely the rebuilds will have some red ATF in them when you take them out of the box. Our systems use power steering fluid, ATF is a no-no.
My original pump lasted over 400k. I replaced it with a lifetime warranty rebuild...........4 times in less than 100k. I finally bought a new OEM from Mopar4Less and couldn't be more satisfied. A new one will come complete, including the cap. The Saginaw pumps we use have been around for over 40 years and are installed in a lot of different applications (my '67 Chev C20 has one) so there is no telling what internals are inside the rebuilds. If you love replacing pumps over and over, stick with the crappy rebuilds, or you could spend a few dollars more and get one that is dependable and made for your truck.
One extra note. More than likely the rebuilds will have some red ATF in them when you take them out of the box. Our systems use power steering fluid, ATF is a no-no.
09-13-2010, 10:04 PM
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I am having a problem with a power steering fluid leak. Fill pump and drive the truck for days and sometimes weeks without loosing a drop of fluid. Then one day I drive it, pull into a parking place, shut down and walk around to front of truck and have a huge and growing puddle of fluid. Reservoir will be empty. Refill and repeat. As best as I can tell the fluid is coming out of the filler neck of the reservoir. Have had the pump replaced and the hoses have been tested. Help please.
09-13-2010, 10:13 PM
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09-13-2010, 10:37 PM
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That's all good info. Thanks very much. Are those bolts that thread through the reservoir housing and into the pump casting some special shoulder bolt to seal, or ??
I will have to call Mopar4less tomorrow, their website is plumb useless. Hopefully they still carry these parts! Our local Dodge dealer in Monroe is a world class ripoff outfit, I will not deal with them, and the gummint just shut down BBC Dodge in Burien (who were the best).
I knew that the pump type that I found on the truck when we started all this mess was just like those on my early Chryslers and Imperials back in the 60s, a very familiar shape. I am a bit conflicted on the "power steering fluid" thing, though. Red-Head stated that ATF of the newer type would run great in this system, especially as we were starting with a "dry" system. What in particular is different in the 8 bucks a quart Mopar part number stuff the dealer has vs the $4.50 a quart for the ATF-4?
I will have to call Mopar4less tomorrow, their website is plumb useless. Hopefully they still carry these parts! Our local Dodge dealer in Monroe is a world class ripoff outfit, I will not deal with them, and the gummint just shut down BBC Dodge in Burien (who were the best).
I knew that the pump type that I found on the truck when we started all this mess was just like those on my early Chryslers and Imperials back in the 60s, a very familiar shape. I am a bit conflicted on the "power steering fluid" thing, though. Red-Head stated that ATF of the newer type would run great in this system, especially as we were starting with a "dry" system. What in particular is different in the 8 bucks a quart Mopar part number stuff the dealer has vs the $4.50 a quart for the ATF-4?
09-14-2010, 06:46 AM
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When you call mopar4less make sure you ask for "internet parts" and after you get a quote verify that it is the internet price. They are a Dodge dealer in Farmington, NM and have at times given me the over the counter price (same as local) by mistake.
The bolts have o-rings and the heads are larger than the heads of most bolts with that size shank. Saginaw sells a rebuild kit that includes the o-rings if you don't have them. About $8 at O'Reillys.
IDK what year Dodge started using ATF in the power steering (3rd gens maybe) but my owners manual has a caution in it about using ATF. I can only surmise that internal seals are not compatable. You don't have to use Mopar PS fluid. If you used ATF I recommend you flush the system completely. The turkey baster method requires you to draw all the fluid out of the reservoir and fill with new, then start the engine turn the wheel lock to lock, shut it off and repeat about 6 or 7 iterations.
The bolts have o-rings and the heads are larger than the heads of most bolts with that size shank. Saginaw sells a rebuild kit that includes the o-rings if you don't have them. About $8 at O'Reillys.
IDK what year Dodge started using ATF in the power steering (3rd gens maybe) but my owners manual has a caution in it about using ATF. I can only surmise that internal seals are not compatable. You don't have to use Mopar PS fluid. If you used ATF I recommend you flush the system completely. The turkey baster method requires you to draw all the fluid out of the reservoir and fill with new, then start the engine turn the wheel lock to lock, shut it off and repeat about 6 or 7 iterations.