600 Megawatts

Hello all. Never posted on this part of the forum before, only engine and perf accessories and competition.....

My steering has become positively deplorable in the last year or so. Took care of the track bar and that was 50% of it easily... Now, I can see slop in the tie rod ends, but I also see that the drag link has some really strange bends in it... including a bend right in the middle of the adjusting sleeve????? I will post a photo of the assembly on my shop floor....

Could anyone let me know if this is the way it is supposed to be.


Thanks
KP

Yamadad

That doesn't sound normal. My theory has always been that when the track bar goes bad, it takes all of the rest of the components with it. I think it starts a weird harmonic that causes the rest of the stuff to get hammered.

Gear Poet

There is not supposed to be a bend in the adjustable sleeve. I've adjusted several of these.

CTD NUT

Ditto.....not supposed to be any bends in the adjusting sleeve....not too sure how that would have happened There is supposed to be slight bend more towards the center of the drag link, though.

600 Megawatts

Yeah, I tend to think so too!!!

Here is a photo of it:




Bye the way, is this what they call the 'Y' or the 'T' steering ??



KP

Eskimo

It's T steering.. Y steering is where the drag link connects directly to the right knuckle, and the "tie rod" connects to the drag link, and isn't truly a "tie rod".

and yes, your drag link is fooked.

yarddog

The T set up is exactly the same as in newer Wranglers and XJ's. They do not tolerate much abuse. In fact I watched some guy completely taco his steering a couple weeks ago trying a relatively easy obstacle.

Is there a kit to convert to the steering to seperate tie rod and drag link? I would feel better if the links were seperate, dedicated pieces..

600 Megawatts

Yeah I figured that it was fubar. The previous owner, no doubt had an 'incident'...

One thing I am not clear on though... Eskimo, according to your text description, than I do have the 'Y' not the 'T' ???? The drag link goes to the passenger spindle, and the 'tie rod' goes from the drivers spindle to the drag link.... Did you get the Y and T swapped on the first part????


Ordered all the stuff at Car Quest... was bout $280 total.

Thanks for all the help guys...


KP

BigBlue

Y steering has the top bar going to the top of the passenger knuckle and the bottom one going across both. You have the T.

P.O.R.

here is a link to a better steering set up.http://thurenfabrication.com/crossover.html

600 Megawatts

Thanks, I have seen those setups, but I do not care for them at all. The passengers side knuckle in that setup is seeing double the twisting moment than it normally sees. A member on here by the name of Lance actually did his correctly by putting both the tie rod and the drag link on the top of the knuckle. Some will attempt to 'correct' me and even offer that the bolt is better off in double shear, but careful analysis of the direction of the forces involved will show you the contrary.... Just draw a picture of the knuckle and draw arrows in the direction of force for any given turn, be it right or left, you will see how the knuckle is now experiencing double the twisting that the stock setup, or the CORRECT custom setup that Lance originally made. It is my personal opinion that after a few years you will see cracked and broken passenger knuckles on trucks that have the setup pictured in that web site, but hopefully, no one will get hurt when it happens.


KP

Cowhand

Well, you were right about one thing, someone will "correct" you. I guess we'll just agree to disagree. With the tie rod on the bottom and the drag link on top, it is still not a double shear joint because the extreme ends of the bolt are not captured. What does change is since the drag link end is placed farther away from the knuckle, there is more leverage on the bolt resulting in MORE stress on the casting.

600 Megawatts

I am sorry you are incorrect. Do what I said, draw a force diagram, then you will see.


For the Thuren setup, lets say you are turning the wheel for a right hand turn. Looking at the passenger knuckle, head on (looking at the front of the truck), the following are the forces: The drag link at top is pushing the knuckle to the passenger side, this creates a twisting moment on the knuckle in the longitudinal axis and in the counterclockwise direction. Since we are making a right turn, the tie rod, which is on the bottom, is being drug to the passenger side, so its resultant force on the knuckle is the opposite direction, to the drivers side. This force creates a twisting moment on the knuckle in the longitudinal axis and in the counterclockwise direction. The two longitudinal, counterclockwise moments combine to create twisting moment of the knuckle twice what the stock one sees.


I agree you don’t want the tie rod on top of the knuckle and then the drag link on top of the tie rod. The way to do it is to put the drag link directly on top of the knuckle and then put the tie rod on top of the drag link (this requires a bit of cleverness and bending to clear each other though). Go through the same example above drawing a force diagram again and see how that is the correct way for your self. The only thing that is stressed more in this case is the bolt, and that can be dealt with using proper size and grade of bolt. You don’t have any way of changing the size or material of the knuckle, and we can’t be sure if it was designed to take twice the bending moment forever...


KP

Cowhand

If you say so....

Whether you put the drag link on top of the tie rod or under it, if both are on top of the knuckle you're moving one or the other farther away from the knuckle which places more leverage on the knuckle end.

P.O.R.

and your asking us if your tie rods are suppose to look like they do...