moopa

First of all I'd like to thank NMCTD for the excellent posts and replies to my and other's questions addressing front suspension issues. Armed with his advice and diagnostic procedures, I set out to replace the components in my front suspension and steering that seemed to be causing me the most grief.
1st, the steering box was replaced.( Napa Lifetime warr.) Next all tie rods( ya those long ones,too) and adjustable sleeves.- Also The Napa Lifetime rather than the one year jobs.
Then the track bar was replaced with one from Solid Steel along with conversion bracket. Then a DSS steering box stabilizer from Solid Steel. As well as new stabilizer bar bushings and link kits-both sides.
When I tested ball joints according to NMCTD's instructions, I felt absolutely no movement on either side, so I left them alone. I also did not touch the Suspension arm bushings. After all of that my wandering has dratically decreased( no wheel alignment,yet and steering wheel is only 1/8 turn out!). But when I hit rough spots on the road, or turn my wheels to the left and hit the brakes, I hear/feel a loud clunk under my feet on the drivers side.
Could this be bad bushings in the suspension arms and/or bad ball joints? Or could it be in the front axle u-joints? (I could not see anything wrong with the front springs, either.)
Sorry for long-winded post, but I wanted to give a fairly clear picture to what I have done.
Thanks,Mark

waldersha

Could be a couple of things, but the easiest one to check is your lower shock bolts. If they are loose at all the shock will be just loose enough to wiggle in there and will quickly wear the bushing. It feels like someone is banging on the underside of your foot when you go over bumps.

Tighten the bolt as tight as you can get it and try that. If the bump goes away then you have found your problem (get new shocks, won't last for long that way). If not, and you managed to tighten it any, you were probably headed that way. Good luck!

ironbutt

Check for play in the steering rod between the column and the steering box . there is a square shaft that slips into another square shaft and as they get older and more wear on them they give a clunk on stopping with the wheel turned (like backing out of a driveway) try slideing the rubber boot down and slipping a plastic zip tie up into the gap between the two shafts, then put the rubber boot back over the upper shaft. This should quiet down the klunk for a while. (cheap fix)

Scramblinman

Might not even be a lose bolt. Here is what I found after my truck developed a serious clunk after running down a rough service road in a rail yard at speed:



Now to figure out which new shocks to purchase.

moopa

Wow! I guess I won't be blasting thru our rail yard any time soon! I'd be scared of what the tires would pick up. it's bad enough walking down there.
Thanks for the replies guys, I'll check the shocks for sure. I also notice a kind of hopping when backing or going forward slowly with wheels turned, almost like when cornering on dry pavement with it locked in 4X4. Could that be diff. or just the big tires biting?

Scramblinman

That is normal behavior for a vehicle that is locked in 4WD on a dry, hard surface. What is going on is that when the vehicle is turning, the front and rear wheels take different arcs and therefore turn at different speeds. The front wheels actually cover less distance in a turn and therefore want to turn faster than the rear wheels. In 2WD the transfer case allows for the front and rear wheels to turn at speeds independent of each other. But in 4WD, the transfer case locks the front and rear wheel together and forces them to all turn at the same speed. On a surface that allows for the wheels to slip a bit, the hopping is not noticed as much as the force is dissipated through wheelslip. But on a surface that provides good traction, the binding builds up until it is released through either one of the front wheels hopping and allowing some wheelspin or, worse, something in the drivetrain such as a ring or pinion gear, differential, u-joint, etc breaking. Hopefully that all makes sense.

Do you work for the E&N?

moopa

Greg that makes alot of sense, but it's happening in 2 WD!
Yes I work for SVI( Southern Railway of Vancouver Island), the old E&N, after 20 years Engineering for CPR and 3 for BC Rail.

Scramblinman

Hmmm, I don't know what to tell you then. Does your truck have the CAD? I can't remember what year that got dropped, but the front wheels being always engaged together might be producing a bit of hop at full lock. I'm running the same tires as you and I do not notice any front end hop when in 2WD.

Southern Railway of Vancouver Island, huh? Related to the Southern Railway of British Columbia? Sounds like the old E&N got picked up by Dennis Washington. We interchange with the SRY in Surrey and Sumas/Abbotsford.

moopa

The shock bolts look good, no rattling, but the dr. side top suspension arm rattles a bit when I try to shake it.It's the only one that does it.I guess that bushing is hooped. Anyone ever change them out? Also the bottom steering damper shock bolt is a bit loose.
Yes Mr. Washington's group is the new operator for the ICF( Island Corridor Foundation), non profit owners of the railway.

Scramblinman

I'll bet that link arm is the source of your clunk. I changed to new polyurethane bushings, but they happened to be in the new extended link arms that I installed at the same time. Sorry.

I think that you can get new replacement bushings from NAPA.

moopa

Are you talking about the sway arm links? I replaced those and the bushings. I'm referring to the upper control arms( called suspension arms on 4X4s). It seems to be just the upper one on dr. side that's loose. The bushings seem to be a tough part to find. From reading on here, the Napa ones are hit and miss on whether they fit or not. So far good luck with all of the other Napa parts I bought.

Scramblinman

Yes, I am referring to the control arms/suspension arms. They are also known as link arms. I installed the DT control arms that are 1/2" longer than stock in order to shift the front axle a bit forward (actually back to where it should be since the leveling kit pulls it back a little) and alleviate an issue with the tires rubbing the wheel well liners at full lock. They came with new polyurethane bushings.

I see that Energy Suspension, as well as others I am sure, offers polyurethane control arm bushings.

moopa

Ok, just checking, there seems to be too many different names for the same parts! I've seen the adjustable control arms made my Solid Steel http://solidsteel.biz/product_daca.htm, but they are only the lowers, and are over $500.00 a set! My problems seem to be with the uppers. By the way, my tires rub on the control arms, too at full lock and even a bit less. Would these adjustable control arms eliminate the rubbing? I thought the rubbing was caused by too big atire on stock rims with too much offset?

Scramblinman

Longer control arms won't do anything for the tires rubbing on them. Your wheels probably have about 6" of backspacing which draws the tires closer to the suspension components. My wheels have about 4.75-5" of backspacing which serves to to push the tires away from the control arms and towards, or in my case into, the back of the wheel well liner. I bought a set of 4 extended length control arms from DT Profab for $360.

I have heard that using lower control arms from a 3rd Gen truck can eliminate the rubbing with the 6" backspace wheels, but would need to do a little more research to confirm that.

NMCTD

moopa: for the "clunk" can you feel it in the floorboard under the pedals its either the control arm bushings or the lower column bushing or possibly the intermediat shaft.

I just replaced my control arm bushings with stock replacments from checker auto parts (might be kragen schucks or advance where you are) they were direct factory replacements made by clevite and reboxed even had a chrysler emblem on them, they fit perfect and quieted down my front end some, or you could get the poly ones from somewhere like http://www.summitracing.com/ Just so you are aware they are pressed into the control arms. I was able to use a ball joint press to press mine out and new ones in.

As for the lower column bushing, reach under the hood and grab the lower steering column (where the long black sring is) Push and pull (sideways in relation to the column), if any play is found the lower column bushins is bad. Only way to fix this is to replace the column with a new junk dodge one or to buy or make one of these http://rocksolidramtrucksteering.com/

For the Intermediat shaft (shaft from the column to steering gearbox) Grab on to the shaft at the slip joint and push and pull (just like the column test) any play and its bad also watch the u-joint on this shaft for play while testing. For this there is several option, stock dodge replacment, borgesson shaft, flaming river replacement, or a stainless one from PSC http://www.pscpowersteer.com/

Glad my other advie helped you out, hope this helps to......Josh