GageMarzigliano

It's a 99 24v with nv4500 and just under 300k.. when my dad had the truck about a year ago he had problems with it not even trying to crank over..neutral switch I think so now you have to push the peel through the floor to get it to crank.. but recently it's started taking a while to get started.. 10 or so seconds of cranking before it would start.. and sometimes it won't start at all.. I'll shut it down at a job and an hour or two later I can't get it to start back up..it'll go a week and not do it and then leave me stranded somewhere.. starts up real quick first thing in the morning..and like I said some days it won't give me any problem..the wts light comes on and I've always had to wait till it goes off to crank or it won't start..but this **** if it not starting at all sometimes is starting to rub me the wrong way..I'm a plumber so I can't deal with this anymore..I need help trying to diagnose what is causing this.. and now it cranks real slow from the start and almost immediately starts to get slower with every crank.. so maybe I've burned up the starter? I don't know.. had the battery's tested and one read 710 amps and the other was 6-something..they are both 825 amp battery's.. any help please. Be glad to answer any questions..

GageMarzigliano

Oh yeah, the truck has juice with attitude.. the fuel pressure reads 18-19 at idle and drops with acceleration.. if you step on it with it turned up it drops to maybe 8-9 psi..but I usually keep it set way down or on stock. It doesn't drop that much just every day driving.

KATOOM

There are generally only a few reasons to cause a hard start issue..... But before I go on, ALWAYS check for codes and disconnect electronic devices first and making sure they're not the problem before replacing other parts.

As for what can cause hard starting:

1) A fuel leak. The fuel system has whats called a prime whereby fuel pressure isnt held when the engines isnt running but the fuel lines will always remain full of fuel. If you have a leak the fuel will run out of the lines back into the tank and the fuel pump will then have to re-prime the system before the engine will run. But because the injection pump doesn't pass fuel unless its spinning with the motor, the fuel is having to slowly run through the lines until everything is all full which causes the extra cranking. This ONLY happens after the trucks been sitting and no other time.

2) Old worn out PSG. The VP injection pump has a computer on it whereby Bosch was forced to use lead free solder due to environmentalists taking over society. That solder is also not high heat friendly and degrades during the hot cycles when you shut the engine off and then the VP heat soaks sitting next to a hotter engine. After 15-20 min the VP is about the same temp as the hotter engine and this causes the PSG solder to eventually short out and cause hot engine extra cranking starts. This ONLY happens when the engine is at full operating temp.

3) Aftermarket fuel pump pressure to high. The stock lift pump is barely capable of supplying the needed fuel pressure so replacing it with something better is more common than not. Unfortunately though the higher volume/higher pressure fuel pumps place too much initial pressure on the VP fuel solenoid and timing ring while the engine is trying to start. The high pressure during that engine cranking will then cause those components to momentarily lock up until the pressure bleeds off, causing extra cranking. Again, this ONLY happens when the engine is at full operating temp AND if you have an aftermarket fuel pump.....and.....usually a re-manufactured VP in combination with that fuel pump. For whatever reason the factory VP's dont seem to be as affected and probably due to greater internal tolerances and wear.

4) Bad CPS. If the cam/crank positioning sensor is faulty then it can cause an intermittent hard start situation whereby it doesn't matter if the engine is hot or cold because its the random faulty signal from the CPS which is causing the problem. You may see a code if this is the problem but not always.

5) Any electrical anomaly. The VP engine trucks are extremely sensitive to electronic variances and everything MUST be in good working order otherwise you can create phantom issues which you wont be able to track down. This means the batteries MUST be in perfect condition and the same battery. The alternator must be working correctly and not be generating excessive AC voltage noise. And all major electrical connections and grounds must be clean and tight and free from corrosion.

Lastly, a dragging starter will cause a hard start problem. This is because a mere 25 slower cranking rpm will reduce compression temps just enough to affect cylinder combustion. The Denso OEM starters are very strong and usually only need new contacts about every 100k miles or so. But when that happens some people kneejerk replace them with a cheap over the counter parts store replacement starter thinking its the better move. The problem with that is the cheap version is terribly weak and will eventually drag with age. But if the OEM starter is still on the truck then batteries and corrosion would be the first on the list of things to check.

Trying to pinpoint when you experience the hard starts will help you figure out what the problem is. Hope that helps.

GageMarzigliano

Thanks for all that..gives me alot to think about. This morning when I got in it to get to work, the starter was dragging from the start..but it fired right up after maybe two cranks.. it seems to never have the problem when it's cold..just hot.. but like I said I can go days without any problem from it..so it has the problem when it's up to operating temp but not every time.. it fires up perfect in the mornings and if it's been sitting for hours. The vp does have a re manufactured sticker on it..and the lift pump is some pump my dad put on it from advanced auto parts..probably not the best pump for these trucks..but it keeps psi up.. I watch it. The psg.. is there any way I can get into it to see if it's the problem or what? If it's sealed can I pour some water on it to cool it off then see how it starts? That may be stupid but I don't know.. that's why I'm here. Thanks!

johnh

if it was mine, i would remove the starter motor and take it to a reputable rebuilder for inspection and possible rebuild ..... every starter motor i have go bad started good when cold but drags when hot! (i have had a few in my 76 years)

GageMarzigliano

That's exactly what I'm going to do today then. There is a place around here called crank n charge. They rebuild starters and alternators..I noticed it's making like a chirping sound as it turns over too.. so I'm gonna have then test and rebuild if necessary.. thanks!

GageMarzigliano

But I still have to try and figure out what the starting problem I'm having sometimes is..the starter is just now going out..and the hard starting is probably the reason why.

patdaly

That is certainly possible, but hot cranking shouldn't be harder than cold cranking.

If the Starter rebuild doesn't solve the problem, try keeping some cold water around and when it won't start right away hot, open the hood and douse the VP44 with the cold water and then see if it starts.

GageMarzigliano

Alright..I'm taking the starter off today, won't have it back until Friday probably. So I'll have to wait to trying the cold water until I can get in cranking fast again..so I'll keep you guys updated soon as I can..thanks for the help

KATOOM

Electronics are affected by both heat just as much as they are by cold. Meaning, when everything warms up under the hood and the batteries and starter are hot then yes if there is a weak battery or excessive corrosion or the starter is in poor condition then you will experience a hard start issue from the heat. All due to a slower cranking speed.....

So have that starter checked out first since chirping noises are never good. If it proves to be bad and its the OEM starter then you can have it rebuilt, or buy another OEM starter for about $400, or choose to replace it with a cheap over the counter unit. Just know that it wont last nearly as long, but either way is up to you and at least you can constantly replace the free lifetime units.

GageMarzigliano

I had the place that rebuilds them check it today and they said it was running slow, so they were going to crack into it and rebuild most likely for about 100$. It was that or they had a Chinese aftermarket for like 120..I went rebuild.. probably would have even if the aftermarket was cheaper..I know a lot of things on these diesels can be rebuilt and be better of than a new parts store brand unit.. I try to treat it as more of a commercial truck.. you don't run to the autobone if you need a part for your big rig.. I don't even use parts store fluid filters.. anyway, I should have the starter back Friday..then I can try to figure out if it's the psg that's causing the hard starting when warm. Update this weekend.

johnh

", but hot cranking shouldn't be harder than cold cranking."
it will be if it's worn out!

jrs_dodge_diesel

That's a good choice getting your starter rebuilt. The OEM Denso starter on these engines are VERY well built. Easy to service too.

GageMarzigliano

Got the starter back and and on the truck. I cranks very fast now, much faster then before. It sounds like my dad's 2012 powerstroke..very very fast. But I haven't had any problems getting it started yet so I'll post when I do.

KATOOM

So it starts fine now? If so then it sounds like you fixed the problem.