KATOOM

I am changing the LP and adding a FP gauge. I have heard about the fuel lines being to small and this is what's causing the many LP problems, not the pulling of fuel like everyone thinks but that the LP's cant push the fuel so the vanes wear out fast. So I removed the fuel lines and WHOOOOOO. I cant belive that anyone would use such tiny little hoses. The one from the tank to LP is 3/8 (adequate for most motors), LP to filter is 5/16 (I think), and filter to VP is 1/8!!! I can't imagine any motor, stock or not, getting enough fuel under full load with lines that small! That would be like trying to fart out of a straw! Eventually something is going to give out! (sorry for the sick simile) So while I have everything apart I found someone who fabricates steelbraided and hardlines to replicate the original but a whole lot bigger. I hope this makes a difference on LP life and pressure under WOT.

Stamey

Actually, the fuel lines aren't as bad as you might think. The bad part about that system is the restrictive banjo bolts. The holes in the shank of the banjo bolts are very small and restrictive. One idea is that the restiction contributes to the lift pump failures, but since the pumps don't fail with any regularity, it cannot be proven. In my opinion, while the restrictive lines probably contribute, I think the mounting location, on the engine, of the ELECTRIC fuel pump is the biggest cause of failure. Electric fuel pumps PUSH much better than they PULL. If the pump was mounted close to the fuel tank I believe we would see sustantially less failures.<br><br>Chris

KATOOM

I dont know why you are saying that they are not as bad as I think? I removed them and saw with my own eyes! These fuel lines are REALLY small. The next time you do a LP change you should remove them to see what I mean. I see what your saying about having to pull the fuel being hard but I'm hearing from shops that they are finding the LP can pull but cant push the fuel fast enough through the tiny lines to the VP so the LP is forced to be in bypass mode. This is when the vanes are worn. If the lines are more open then the LP is able to pass fuel easier thus you get less wear, more pressure, more fuel volume, and more power. Makes sence to me and I know Rod at Wildcat is selling bigger fuel lines for this very reason.

TX Ram

[quote author=KATOOM link=board=4;threadid=14240;start=0#134177 date=1051848089]<br>I dont know why you are saying that they are not as bad as I think? I removed them and saw with my own eyes! These fuel lines are REALLY small. The next time you do a LP change you should remove them to see what I mean. I see what your saying about having to pull the fuel being hard but I'm hearing from shops that they are finding the LP can pull but cant push the fuel fast enough through the tiny lines to the VP so the LP is forced to be in bypass mode. This is when the vanes are worn. If the lines are more open then the LP is able to pass fuel easier thus you get less wear, more pressure, more fuel volume, and more power. Makes sence to me and I know Rod at Wildcat is selling bigger fuel lines for this very reason.<br>[/quote]<br><br>I think what he was sayign is if you're still using the banjo bolts, you still have the same tiny restrictive holes. Not that bigger fuel lines won't help, but it will only flow as good as its smallest restriction. imo.

KATOOM

Opps, sorry to mention that I did also get the larger banjo bolt kit. I will be installing all of these at the same time. So yes your right, the bolts did have little holes too. The entire system was way to restrictive.

BigBlue

The bolts are to small. But the banjos that the bolts go into, the holes there are to small as well. The Holley Black Changeover kit that I got from Rod included MUCH larger banjos. Plus bigger line as well.

dodgeman01

Has anyone seen/felt a difference with the High flow bolts. I was thinking about getting them for my 98 24v?<br>DM01

latitud_rt

The larger banjos are a definite improvement both in fuel pressure and fuel mileage. Make the change. Performance increase is subjective to the driver. Again, you want be sorry you changed them. Give Rod at Wildcat a call, or call Geno's.<br><br>Tim

BigBlue

The line coming from the tank to the lift pump is quite small. I removed two of the banjos that go into my lift pump (Holley Black now). I've got 3 banjo's in my entire system with some like 3/8&quot; ID line. The banjos themselves are about the same diameter. They may not flow as well as having no banjos at all, but it's a lot better than stock.<br><br>Dman01, I saw a 1-2 psi increase overall when I replaced the bolts with some high flow ones. I highly suggest it.

dodgeman01

What is the price of these bolts? And what about this pusher pump. Where can I get it and how much to I need to take out a loan for? <br>DM01

BigBlue

The bolts I think were like $100. Rod's and Geno's carry them. I've heard Rod's are better. I used Geno's and didn't have any problem. Rod also sells a pusher pump, I THINK. Don't quote me on that.

KATOOM

Rod does NOT sell a pusher pump. Call him and he will tell you (what most wont) that pusher systems are not proven for longevity. Yea some guys are having luck with pushers and thats great but I think its a band aid for another problem. Why shove fuel through small lines with two pumps when you can do the same with one pump in bigger lines. The line from the tank to the LP is 3/8. Plenty big unless your around 400hp. I am changing the line from LP to filter also. Its 5/16 and Im putting in 3/8 or 1/2. Havent made the lines yet. When I get a chance I am going to also change the tank to LP line to 1/2 just for insurance. I know everyone has had a mind set about LP problems and pusher being the thing to do but if guys that make mega power are having luck with what were talking about then why not listen? By the way Rod sells the Banjo kit for around $50. Bigger fuel lines ar around $110.

Push Rod

[quote author=Gary - KJ6Q link=board=4;threadid=14240;start=0#134336 date=1051892412]<br>1) The fuel line most NEVER see, is the one coming outta the tank to the first section of 3/8 SS tubing<br><br>2) I see 22 psi at idle, 20 at cruise, and NEVER less than 15 WOT psi right at the VP-44 with my Comp on 5x5 up steep grades towing our trailer[/quote]<br><br>1) Actually, the pickup tube isn't all that bad. Its not small enough to do any real damage to a lift pump anyway. And the stainless fuel line itself is plenty large enough for the largest of pumps, including the Holley Blacks and PE4200s. Remember, whats killing these pumps is NOT the feed, but high on/off outlet pressure thats causing the internal bypasses to constantly cycle and eventually fail. We've also seen some stator damage that can only be attributed to high outlet pressure, versus any kind of feed restriction.<br><br>2) Actually, a 7 PSI drop is fairly significant, although you are getting plenty of fuel flow. If you replaced the lift pump outlet lines, between the lift and filter, and filter to VP44, you'd likely see your pressure drop minimized. Our old Holley kits, when the pumps were actually worth using, would see 15 - 16 PSI at idle, and about 12 - 13 PSI at wide open throttle. About a 3 PSI pressure drop. Even using the stock lift with larger lines on 400 HP trucks is showing us about a 5 PSI pressure drop, and great lift pump reliability.<br><br>Rod