I think so too.

 

Thanks Torquefan, as the OP says he is new to our trucks, but I was starting to get in over my head. I appreciate you and Six chiming in.

 

Yeah!

Me too!

 

Hello DallasDodge2500. Welcome to the forum and let’s see what we can determine here to help get your truck running. There are lots of helpful posts so far too so I'm sure I'm going to repeat a few things people have already suggested but really.....there isn’t to many things to look for since diesel engines don’t require very much to run. The problem with the ISB Cummins is that they're completely electronically controlled and if a few electronic goodies aren’t functioning properly then it won’t start or it won’t run right.

So let’s get started..... First off, I believe you have a 2001. That’s good because you have the ability to read the basic codes from your odometer simply by cycling the ignition key three times starting from the OFF position and stopping in the ON position. When done correctly the odometer will possibly list some four digit numbers beginning with a letter “p”. And then when there's nothing else to show you it will say p-done or -----. If you check for codes and all you get is either one of the last two things I just mentioned then there probably isn’t any codes and you can move on. If you do have codes then right them down and list what they are.

Now understand that the LP "should" be mounted to the driver’s side of the block. But I don’t think I see it in that very first picture you posted so maybe you have the "in-tank" LP. Do you know? Take a peek and see if it’s hanging there. It’s not out in the open so you may have to look. If you’re having troubles spotting it then trace back the inlet fuel line from the VP or from the fuel tank. If you're not sure what to look for then simply Google Cummins Carter LP for the Dodge Ram and you'll see some pictures of what it’s supposed to look like. If you have the in-tank fuel pump installed by the dealer after the truck was purchased then it obviously won’t be hanging on the side of the block and will require listening for fuel pump humming from the tank. In saying that, the fuel lines will still run past the side of the block but just no Carter lift pump will be there. Hopefully you DONT have the in-tank LP too since they're even more garbage than the block mounted LP.

When you first turn the key on you should always hear (amongst the dash chimes) the fuel pump priming for about 2-3 seconds. This is normal and part of the reason why the WTS light comes on. Yes, you should always "wait to start" too since the LP is trying to assure a proper fuel prime and the grid heaters may be cycling as well if the outside temps are around 60* or colder. Why wait?.....I wouldn’t suggest asking the batteries to try and power the high torque beefy starter these engines come with and also run the immense wattage/amps the intake heater grids pull at the same time. Patience is a virtue and waiting a few seconds for the WTS light to go out isn’t going to cause you any great delay in life, plus since the ISB is fully electronic, it requires an adequate level of volts/amps and will get quirky if the batteries cant supply what it needs. Even the VP must have a minimum of 9 volts to function.

Also these engines can do what’s called "bumping the starter" whereby you momentarily tap the key from the ON position over to the START position allowing the starter to engage for about half a second but that’s it. What this does is cause the LP to run again but now for approximately 20-25 seconds. This is important as constant cranking the engine to achieve the same thing is not only unnecessary but can be bad for the starter as it will get hot constantly cranking away. Bumping the starter allows for a “properly functioning” LP to do what it needs to do in order to help prime the fuel system and/or purge out any entrapped air after changing the filter or running out of fuel.

That brings up another point; do NOT run your fuel level so low. Yes I fully understand the costs of fuel and I'm no fan of the Gov sticking it to the common folk either by not drilling on our own soil but just know that running your fuel level so low all the time causes fuel temps in the tank to run hotter than desired in the summer months which isnt good for the VP, can allow for condensation build up and possible algae to form in the tank, and can cause you to possibly run out of fuel which is horrible for the VP fuel injection pump as well. Point being is, you NEVER want to run a fuel injected engine out of fuel, gas or diesel. As mentioned by another post, if you must only fill with a few gallons at a time then treat 1/2 tank as the empty mark. That way the tank is always sloshing around with an adequate amount of fuel supply and the fuel volume offsets the heat generated by the return fuel.

OK..... Now you know some additional basics so let’s see if the LP is working.....for real. LP's can function and make noise but not always work or work like they should. The stock block mounted LP is rated for 15 psi but can and usually puts out much less. The in-tank LP is generally lucky to get above 10 psi. Bump the starter and listen for the LP to make a nice humming noise for the 20-25 seconds. Again, depending on if you have the block mounted LP or the in-tank LP is where you’ll have to listen for. If you don’t hear it then we need to look for another issue. If you do hear it making a solid humming noise then let’s make a mess. Lift up the drain valve on the fuel filter canister. You also have a picture of that valve too with a missing or rotted off drain hose. That said, you can add another length of hose to reduce the mess from diesel pouring all over the place. With the fuel drain open, bump the starter and see if fuel "shoots" out that drain. If the LP is working then it won’t dribble or slightly pour out but shoot out pretty good. Given all the trouble you had filling the canister before I'm thinking the LP is not working. To show how much fuel the LP pushes, some guys will even leave the fuel filter cap loose after replacing the fuel filter and then bump their starter and allow fuel to fill the canister and spill out in attempt to ensure all the air out. That’s how affect the LP "should" be. But if it does happen to shoot out the drain hose then quickly close the drain valve (can sometimes be tricky to seat it shut properly too) and then listen for the LP humming noise to obviously sound strained like it now has a load placed on the LP…..which it should since it went from no resistance to pressuring the fuel line when you shut the valve. If so then that’s good so far. If the noise doesn’t change then the LP could be bad. Not having a fuel pressure gauge means this is how you’ll have to determine what’s happening with the LP. Fuel pressure gauges on these trucks are really handy…..if not necessary, but that’s another topic.

For future reference, do NOT open the fuel filter or loosen any fittings unless you HAVE to. Doing so only allows air into the fuel system and will cause more problems with starting as the fuel system requires always having a “prime” and opening the fuel lines anywhere immediately stops the prime and will require you to bleed the system trying to regain what you’ve lost by opening the lines. People have a tendency to panic when their truck won’t start and they begin by opening the many fuel line fittings to see if they have fuel running which is the worst thing to do. If you MUST check for fuel flow from the LP then do it the way I noted with the drain valve or use one of the two test port Schrader valves located on the fuel filter inlet and the VP inlet. Another thing with noting is NEVER test with the drain valve or Shrader valve while the engine is running. And really, bumping the starter and then opening the drain valve and closing it again within those 20 seconds will ensure no air gets in since all the fuel is pushing outward.

OK, assuming the LP is functioning and there's tons of fuel getting to the fuel filter, this is when you'll need two people. With someone at the wheel, take a 3/4" open ended wrench and crack loose one of the fuel injection lines coming from the VP going into the engine on the side of the head. DONT take it off but just have it a little loose. Then have that other person bump the starter a couple times first and then crank the engine over like you’re trying to start it up. With the LP working and lots of fuel getting to the VP you should see fuel spritz out of the injector line. Obviously if it starts, quickly tighten the line back up. I can’t remember the torque setting but I want to say it’s around 25 ft lbs for that fitting. If you find no fuel coming out of the line then try loosening another…..and another because you may just be pushing a lot of air at this point and it needs to escape. If after three lines loosened and about 10 seconds of cranking you still see no fuel coming out then that’s not good. But for sake of persistence and possibly a lot of air in there in combination with a weaker LP, wait about a half hour or so to cool the starter and then give it another go cranking the engine with the injector lines loose. If all you see if fuel lightly dribbling out of those injector lines then that’s not good since this is a high pressure line. Fuel won’t drench out in loads of volume but it will come out with force when it does. And word of caution, if it does spray with force, make sure you keep fingers away since the thousands of pounds of pressure is enough to force the fuel into your skin and really hurt you.

So with all that said, not all trucks have the same fuse/relay diagram so you’ll just have to determine that all the fuses and relays are OK by checking them. Best with a test light too. OK, with all the fuses working and you can hear the LP humming like I noted, and you are getting fuel to the fuel filter canister, and you’re getting fuel to the VP and fuel out of the fuel injection lines then…..the truck should start. It may take some persistence since a weaker LP will only push so much fuel pressure and volume and it may take a few tries to get all the air and fuel to purge out of the injection lines and VP, but if everything is working then it will start.

A bad LP is going to obviously require changing it out too and as Tallguy67 noted, the VP can pull its own fuel…..as long as the fuel system isn’t opened and the prime is retained. Its not completely uncommon for people to have a non-functioning LP and the truck still runs until the day they change the fuel filter or run out of fuel which stops the "prime". But not common enough that I’m going to say this is your problem. But…..recognizing that having the VP suck enough fuel to run the truck through a non-functioning LP is horrible for the VP. Hopefully that’s not been what’s happening.

Now…..yes, the VP can also fail without warning and if you’re running the OEM VP and it has many many miles racked up on it then that may just be the problem. It can fail two ways too. Electronically and mechanically. Mechanical failures will always generally throw a code. There is a code for an electronic failure too but it doesn’t have to throw it. You may just see a P-1693 which is a companion code and means that there’s something else in the electronic system. You can try to dig for it with a quality code reader plugged into the OBII port under the dash but that doesn’t mean you’ll find anything because the 1693 can just be because of the lack of communication between the ECM, PCM, and the VP. That doesnt mean not to try looking though as you should always explore for any information the truck can offer. If you’ve found some codes after checking like I noted earlier then we can discuss what those are and see if anything is related to a no start issue.

So did any of that help? Hopefully it did but feel free to ask more questions if you can’t get it running since I’m sure I overlooked something.

 

At this point, I'd close up the fuel system, and bump the starter a few times to push all the air toward the injector pump. Having a pressure gauge attached would be helpful to ensure that consistent pressure is being built every time the lift pump cycles, but if you don't have access to one, you can try without.

Make sure your batteries don't become run down in the process; if they do, it can start leading your diagnosis in the wrong direction when the engine won't crank fast enough to start. If you have to put a charger on it for an hour, it's usually worth taking a break to let it catch up.

#2 and #6 injector lines are usually the hardest to put a wrench on at the cylinder head, so I usually loosen the other four for bleeding and ignore those two. Loosen each a turn or so, then get in and crank the engine for 8 or 10 seconds. You may have to repeat this several times until fuel appears around each loose line. It may be foamy for the first little bit, then hopefully will clear up. At this point, you should be able to retighten all the loose lines and the engine should start fairly quickly after cranking it again.

 

Ok, here is the update with what I did and what happened:

- Changed all inside fuses w new ones

- Added 4 gallons of fuel (shows under 1/2 tank)

- Loosened #1, #3 and #5 injector nuts

- Did what you said with key (no idea about codes w no reader) and
I heard the humming of the pump in the back (not sure which) and
also heard the lift pump as well.

- Waited for the wait to start light to go off, tap cranked the starter,
heard the pump humming like it has been before this.

- Cranked it until I saw fuel coming out of the lines and got out to
tighten injector nuts.

AND....... It DIDN'T fire up and start!
The batteries had enough left for maybe 20-30 seconds of cranking but, it didn't fire up once.

 

[QUOTE=DallasDodge2500;3218569]Ok, here is the update with what I did and what happened:

- Changed all inside fuses w new ones
But did you make sure ALL the fuses are in place, because you referenced "removing" fuses and you certainly need ALL of the fuses which were in there to begin with.

- Added 4 gallons of fuel (shows under 1/2 tank)
Thats enough fuel.

- Loosened #1, #3 and #5 injector nuts

- Did what you said with key (no idea about codes w no reader) and
I heard the humming of the pump in the back (not sure which) and
also heard the lift pump as well.
Are you saying that the odometer indicated no codes?
If the LP is working then you should only hear humming from ONE source. The way you just described it, you're hearing humming from the pump and LP as well. That makes no sense and there is only ONE lift pump and only one component making ANY noise during the 20-25 seconds the LP is supposed to be running after bumping the stater. So determine what your actually hearing.....

- Waited for the wait to start light to go off, tap cranked the starter,
heard the pump humming like it has been before this.
As I noted in the above book I just wrote, the LP can make noise but NOT do anything. Since you dont have a fuel pressure gauge, you MUST determine if the LP is actually doing something besides making a little noise. Thats why I described how to establish finding this out by using the fuel filter drain valve.

- Cranked it until I saw fuel coming out of the lines and got out to
tighten injector nuts.
Again.....what amount of fuel are you talking about. If the VP isnt working electronically then the LP can actually still push fuel through the VP rotor while the engine is cranking and allow for "fuel" to appear at the injector lines. So just because you see fuel isnt always the right amount of fuel. Again.....establishing if the LP is actually working like it should will help understand whats going on here.

AND....... It DIDN'T fire up and start!
The batteries had enough left for maybe 20-30 seconds of cranking but, it didn't fire up once.
Clearly you need to throw a charger on those batteries and give them a good soak for probably 24 hours. DO NOT try starting with weak batteries and the likelihood of it starting with poor battery condition is remote.

 

I was at Harbor Freight today and saw this fuel injection pump tester on sale for $20 so, I bought it.

Please tell me this will be good enough to test what you guys say is needed/helpful??

My last post I had meant that when cranking it, it does NOT chug or give any indication that it is trying to start.

I just got home so I am about to go out and see if I can get any codes.

 

I pulled both batteries out and charged them separately for several hours.
Put them back in and checked all the fuses with a circuit tester and all were good.

I did the turn key three times thing and the code read: P 1639

The 2nd one read: P DONE A third appeared but, I didn't catch it cuz I was reaching for the pen and not sure how many total came across.

I turned the key to ON, waited for the WTS to go off and then I repeated that two more times and the 3rd time I cranked it a second to let the pump run longer and when it shut off.... I turned the key to crank it and.....

It took about 5 seconds to fire up and it ran at idle for about 5 minutes before I drove it back to the driveway about 50 feet away.
Shut it off, looked at all the injectors, the fuel filter casing, valves, etc... And saw no leaking and no signs of foaming or bubbles anywhere.

I am stunned! I figured I was doomed to the mother of all repairs but... You guys totally ROCK!!! For all of you to explain mechanical stuff like this to a guy like me, with no basic understanding of diesel mechanics... Totally amazing and appreciated more than you know!!!

Thank you to everyone!!!

 

Awesome..... Glad to see it started. Sometimes they can be difficult but at least you now know FAR more about these trucks and engines than you did before. So there's the positive way to look at it. Also, you can recheck for those codes any time and over and over so see what you missed. The codes dont reset either unless the OBDII system registers a certain number of run cycles without the issue present. Dont remember how many it takes but usually if there's a code and the problem is fixed then the check engine light will go out in a couple days. If you have a code reader then you'll know what all the codes are and you can clear them too to see if they come back.

Those pressure testers are great tools too. But.....the likelihood of it being quality coming from HF is going to be slim. No matter because as long as it tells you within a certain parameter that your actually getting fuel pressure, will be better than not knowing anything at all.

Since you just changed out the fuel filter you know its clean so where you'll want to connect the test line is to the test port on the inlet of the VP. Bump the starter and see what it tells you. Then with the engine running see what the fuel pressure is while idling. If your fuel pressures are below 10 psi then thats why you had so much trouble bleeding out the fuel system.

 

.................good job, hope that's all it was........kim......

 

DallasDodge, welcome to the family, now you know a bunch about our Diesel engines, you are where I was about 3 yrs ago. Now you get to share with other newbies. Helping others is the price you now have to pay for the help that Sixslug, Torquefan, Katoom, Infidel, JP-4.5, klcammie and others provided you

 

BTW, my last post was said with a smile, pretty much all of us ever want is to help others.

 

Just curious what is P1639? Can't find it on my DTC list.

 

P1639 5 Volt Reference 2 Circuit