Tate

I know this may sound like an easy one, but I'd like a second opinion before I go drop a couple hundred bucks on new batteries (my suspicion).

Started this monday morning (0 degrees C), slow to crank, slowly starts spinning faster, and lights after about 10 seconds of cranking. Started fine in the afternoon when around 15C outside. Tuesday, started fine both in the morn, and afternoon. Wednesday, took about 10 seconds again of cranking for it to get going. Today, every start (was warm this morning, and the 4 starts this afternoon were all on a hot engine), very slow to crank. Takes up to about 20 seconds of cranking for it to go. My radio has a voltage display, and it used to be around 13.8-14.1, now its in the 13.0-13.2 range. Truck runs fine, its just slow to start. I cleaned my terminals (no change in condition), checked for continuity between the batteries (make sure I didn't have a lame cable), and had the batteries tested at a parts place. Checked out ok. The green 'eyes' on the batteries are still green.

The reason why I'm not looking towards the alt, is it went out in February. Even when the voltage display on the radio was down around 11.9 volts, it still started fine, and ran fine. And the voltage never changed between the engine running, and the engine off, and the key on. I'm getting 13.0-13.2 running, and 12.1-12.5 V with the engine off, key on.

Sorry for the book, but any and all help is appreciated. I won't want to have to drive the Tempo for another week again while the truck is out of action.

Mopar1973man

You cannot test a alternator on low or dead batteries first off... So your charge voltage could be lame from dead or weak batteries... Have you checked the water in them???

As for battery testing check your chanking voltage. It should be above 10.5 Volts normally. Remember the mighty Cummins draws huge amount of current to turn the starter!

As for charging voltage you should have 13.5 - 14.5 Volts. But at this point it sound like you going to have to start somewhere... Most likely the batteries... See if you can get some good batteries and re-test the charging system.

As for the green eyes... I've seen dead I'm mean dead batteries with green eyes yet...

1-2-3

Get a volt meter. Take a reading with truck off. If it's low, charge/replace batteries.

If the batteries were low, I would dissconect them, charge for a couple of hours, let them sit another couple of hours then take a reading. If they don't maintain a charge, replace them.

Once that's done, put them back in (or replace bith) have someone start it, while watching the meter. Voltage should be about 13, it should drop to about 10 when starting, then rise quickly to about 14 while running.

You must have good/ fully charged batteries first, and the alt must put out more than the capacity of the battery to charge it.

Always replace both at the same time.

Tate

I hooked up some booster cables, to our intrepid while running. Started up after about 4 or 5 revs, so my thinking was it was the batteries.

Put in some new batteries. Bigger than the last ones (methinks the old ones were the OE, unless they went back to Mopar to buy new ones), got it all hooked up. Fired it up. Took a little less time than on the old ones unaided, so I took it for a spin. 13.2V at idle, and would come up to 13.4-13.5 at 1k RPM or higher, never went above that. Drove 30 km, which should've brought the charge up in the new batteries. Came home, parked it in the driveway. Went out about 5 minutes later to see how it would crank. It was slooooooow. It must've went about 1/2 a rev (chugged 3 times, I'm guessing it slowed as a piston came to TDC under compression). So now, I don't know where to go from here. I priced a starter ($360, yay!), which might account for the slow starting, but not the low voltage I'm seeing. Earliest I could get the starter is Monday.

When the truck was off, the voltage at the batteries was around 12.5-13 (was using an older analog multimeter), and starting was around 10 and change. Seems to be in spec.

Any other opinions out there? I'd love to get this thing fixed before it bankrupts me.

Mopar1973man

I would have the alternator bench tested or take it to a shop and have it tested for charge... It most likely not the starter...

Think about it... You dropped in the batteries and it started better then went for a drive and the voltage sagged down to 13.2V and then became slow starting.

I would have the alternator checked.. Also check all you cables again and alternator connections.

Tate

Pulled the altenator, had it tested, and came back fine. So I pulled my cables off, and having a new set built for Monday. I'd sure love that to be the problem. Tried to start it this morning, and it wouldn't even crank, just heard the click and that was it. The voltage was around 11V when attempting to crank, 12.1 key on.

I should mention, I put in a dual disc clutch 2 weeks ago. The first morning start took a bit of work to get it going, but I assumed it had lost a bit of prime as it didn't run for a week. Rest of that week was fine. Then it started again this monday.

Mopar1973man

Geez... I'm sorry nothing has helped... I was figuring a weak charging system ... But seeing the alternator is fine... Well I hope cables help... I know you don't want to replace a starter...

I'm stumped... (Passing the torch to someone else to take a crack at it...)

Tate

I sure hope that it fixes the problem. If not, I guess I'll have to find a place to test out the starter (if such a place exists).

Looking at the related topics at the bottom of the page, the two that are related to slow cranking, neither of those were resolved. I sure hope that chain will be broken. If nothing else, I found a 2k1 3500 like mine for sale, but its an HO. Buy that one, swap some parts, and have the 98 get stolen?

Tate

A little update. Place I took my battery cables to get replaced couldn't make a proper set, so they said try the dealer. $500-800 for cables! So the starter was the cheaper option. Should be here tomorrow. In the mean time, I took the old one out, and decided to take a peak at it. Pull the body off of it, full of what looks like brake dust. I've never disassembled a starter before, but I assume that bad. Next thing I notice is that two of the brushes are significantly shorter than the other two. Pull the end cover off to see the brushes better, and its not good. Same thing on the rotor. Pics of it in my gallery. I sure hope thats the issue. Makes sense for the slow starting, don't know about the low voltage, but I guess we'll see.

neveragain

How is flat land over there . Sorry didn't read all of the posts but take the analog meter and go from post to the terminal around it. Did this once to a 95 Dodge and he had 10.4 volts between the post and the terminal on the negitive post. Vaseline works about the best for electrical connections. One guy I worked with some years ago said he had some T&B product tested and it came back as Vaseline. go figure. Check the lug on the starter for corrusion.even in the lug it's self if you can measure from on end to the other either voltage or resistance. Both work well.

DL1221

For starter brushes and contacts, Fostertruck has some good stuff, and a starter/alternator too, if you need one:
http://www.fostertruck.com/dodge/

If you need battery cables, give this guy a try, he seems to do quality work, and cheaper than the dealer:
http://www.custombatterycables.com/index.htm

I assumed you checked this, but if your battery voltage is below 13.5 volts, then it is too low. The PCM regulates the alternator's output voltage, using the engine speed sensor (is your tachometer working OK?) and a battery temperature sensor, among others. Your problem could be the PCM or a bad sensor.

Tate

I put in the new starter, and I had a new driverside negative cable fabbed up. Starts better than it ever has before. And better yet, the voltage is back to where it used to be. 13.6 at idle, and 13.9 at anything over 1k RPM. I don't remember there being a drop like that before, but as long as it keeps running and starting, I won't complain. And it looks like I have two decent batteries yet, have to stash them in the basement on toss the charger on them.

Thanks for all the help, definitely appreciated.