P0121 and P0230 What's going on here?
12-27-2005, 07:39 PM
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P0121 and P0230 What's going on here?
I suspect that I am getting the P0230 because I have a holley blue setup on my truck, and have the factory LP harness unplugged, however, if I am wrong please correct me. I think that code is just stored, and not tripping the CEL to active.
I was on my way to my girlfriend's grandma's for X-Mas and had the cruise set and about 1.5 hrs. into the trip, the truck just farted or hiccupped and the CEL came on and the truck kept right on trucking like nothing was wrong. I did the 3 key cycles and got these two codes off the truck along with the 1693. Prior to this, a few weeks ago on a hunting trip, I got off the interstate and the truck was still running but idle only... I guess... no accellerator. Shut it off, fired it up and was fine.
Just wondering what may be wrong?? What I may need to fix??
Any help appreciated,
-Ryan
I was on my way to my girlfriend's grandma's for X-Mas and had the cruise set and about 1.5 hrs. into the trip, the truck just farted or hiccupped and the CEL came on and the truck kept right on trucking like nothing was wrong. I did the 3 key cycles and got these two codes off the truck along with the 1693. Prior to this, a few weeks ago on a hunting trip, I got off the interstate and the truck was still running but idle only... I guess... no accellerator. Shut it off, fired it up and was fine.
Just wondering what may be wrong?? What I may need to fix??
Any help appreciated,
-Ryan
12-27-2005, 07:51 PM
#2
Chapter President
P0121
Throttle/Petal Position Sensor/Switch A Circuit Range/Performance Problem
P0230
Fuel Pump Primary Circuit Malfunction
APPS Reset: This procedure has shown to help 24 valve ISB engines. It is basically teaching the fly by wire accelerator on these trucks to reread the position of the pedal and it's limits. Most complaints this will help with is poor acceleration, improper shifting, bucking in 5 and 6 speeds. Has been known to increase fuel mileage in some instances.
1. Set parking brake
2. Disconnect negative battery cables on both batteries
3. Turn ignition key to run(to drain any remaining capacitors)
4. Let truck sit for 30 minutes( this is the recommended minimum)
5. Return ignition to OFF position
6. Reconnect both batteries and secure, not a timed event
7. Turn key to run position(not start) and depress accelerator pedal slowly all the way to the floor
8. Allow pedal to return to top position slowly
9. Turn ignition switch OFF
10.Release parking brake
Throttle/Petal Position Sensor/Switch A Circuit Range/Performance Problem
P0230
Fuel Pump Primary Circuit Malfunction
APPS Reset: This procedure has shown to help 24 valve ISB engines. It is basically teaching the fly by wire accelerator on these trucks to reread the position of the pedal and it's limits. Most complaints this will help with is poor acceleration, improper shifting, bucking in 5 and 6 speeds. Has been known to increase fuel mileage in some instances.
1. Set parking brake
2. Disconnect negative battery cables on both batteries
3. Turn ignition key to run(to drain any remaining capacitors)
4. Let truck sit for 30 minutes( this is the recommended minimum)
5. Return ignition to OFF position
6. Reconnect both batteries and secure, not a timed event
7. Turn key to run position(not start) and depress accelerator pedal slowly all the way to the floor
8. Allow pedal to return to top position slowly
9. Turn ignition switch OFF
10.Release parking brake
12-27-2005, 08:19 PM
#3
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121 and/or 122 usually mean your apps is getting too worn and is time to replace. Re-setting it may squeeze you some more time, but you may want to plan on needing a new one at some point. It's easy to replace. It's the money that's a bummer.
You can even take your APPS off and re-calibrate the sensor (but you are not supposed to) and maybe squeeze a couple extra weeks out of it that way.
But, other than re-setting it by unhooking the batteries....etc.k, I would just opt for a new one if it shows back up after re-setting. I'm not sure I squeezed any more time out of mine by re-calibrating it or not.
OK,
Good luck.
You can even take your APPS off and re-calibrate the sensor (but you are not supposed to) and maybe squeeze a couple extra weeks out of it that way.
But, other than re-setting it by unhooking the batteries....etc.k, I would just opt for a new one if it shows back up after re-setting. I'm not sure I squeezed any more time out of mine by re-calibrating it or not.
OK,
Good luck.
12-27-2005, 08:21 PM
#4
Registered User
By the way,\
when they say 30 miniutes is the minimum THEY MEAN IT>.. 25 minutes will NOT do, I tried shaving off 5 minutes once cause I was in a hurry, and I ended up doing it again,
Now, I always leave it for a couple hours so there is no question.
when they say 30 miniutes is the minimum THEY MEAN IT>.. 25 minutes will NOT do, I tried shaving off 5 minutes once cause I was in a hurry, and I ended up doing it again,
Now, I always leave it for a couple hours so there is no question.
12-28-2005, 05:39 PM
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I will try an "APPS" reset, however, if that doesn't work and I get this again, what must be done to fix the problem? New APPS (TPS... is this the same thing?) What does that cost/intail to do?
-Ryan
-Ryan
12-28-2005, 05:57 PM
#6
Chapter President
Mine was $336 from Cummins Southern Plains. About 20 minutes to install.
You may find one cheaper on Ebay, but DON"T go to Dodge dealer unless your in warrenty.
You may find one cheaper on Ebay, but DON"T go to Dodge dealer unless your in warrenty.
12-28-2005, 06:09 PM
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dodge lowered there prices on that part so says my parts guy I got mine for $408 CAN 3 weeks ago from dodge, cummins was more expensive in my case, pays to phone everyone
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12-28-2005, 06:41 PM
#9
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It is similar to all tps sensors used in the industry. You can find papers on them in auto engeneering colleges, etc.,
They consist of 2 potentiometers (I think 2, for a safety fallback or something).
At idle they put out roughly 1/2 (.5) volts. At max they put out about 5 volts.
I don't know whether they are linear or log taper. I'm guessing linear.
I'm also guessing that if you knew which one to buy, you could buy a generic one with the 2 bolt holes in the correct places. I believe they think it's dangerous for you to put one in because you might forget to use locktite or something and one day your truck may take off on you till you run over someone or shut it off.
If it was just a throttle postition sensor, I believe they would sell you one separatley...But since it IS (that's right...IS) your throttle, they probably don't want to make it easy for you to put it in yourself. THey'd get sued sooner or later.
I just installed a new one. GOt it from a Chrysler Dealer (ON EBAY>>>..didn't know it was a dealer till it came in the mail).. It costed me $275.00. I could have got a used one for under 200, but that's not too smart in my opinion. A new one here in l.a. at a dealer is about $452.00 The parts involved are under 2 or 3 bucks. I'm guessing the connector costs more than the potentiometers. The bell crank (assembly that the apps is setting in) is 90% of the cost of manufacture.
There is a 6 pin connector in the tpps. I'm guessing +,-, and ground for both potentiometers. (unless they just use a 6 pin because that's what they have.) The connectors are gold plated like we use in the studios. So you know they don't want to have a bad rap if the connection starts going bad even if the part is good. If you have a studio on the beach here in l.a., it goes without saying that you need gold plated connectors way worse than the dudes 10 miles inland. ANything else will go bad sooner rather than later.
You stand to make a LOT of money ( and everyone will become your friend) if you can figure out which generic apps to buy and install on your dodge. You will even make more if you can find one with the same 6 pin connector and then you won't have to monkey with changing them.
If I wasn't way too **** busy with my business, I would have done that just to see if I could. I've got a lot of VOM's and all of that. I'm not sure if there is an actual circuit inside the apps sensor, or if it is strictly 2 pots. Maybe someone will chime in who has taken theirs apart. Still, the circuit would rarely be the part to go bad, just the pot. A lot of times, the pot will have the value AND the mfgr. stamped right on it. Then it would be a no-brainer.
Also, since it's going bad, you can't use your ohmmeter and assume you will have an accurate reading of what a new one SHOULD be. because yours has already gone bad.
I'm guessing you can sell 1 a day on ebay for $150. each. This would cause dodge to drop their price quite quickly..
They consist of 2 potentiometers (I think 2, for a safety fallback or something).
At idle they put out roughly 1/2 (.5) volts. At max they put out about 5 volts.
I don't know whether they are linear or log taper. I'm guessing linear.
I'm also guessing that if you knew which one to buy, you could buy a generic one with the 2 bolt holes in the correct places. I believe they think it's dangerous for you to put one in because you might forget to use locktite or something and one day your truck may take off on you till you run over someone or shut it off.
If it was just a throttle postition sensor, I believe they would sell you one separatley...But since it IS (that's right...IS) your throttle, they probably don't want to make it easy for you to put it in yourself. THey'd get sued sooner or later.
I just installed a new one. GOt it from a Chrysler Dealer (ON EBAY>>>..didn't know it was a dealer till it came in the mail).. It costed me $275.00. I could have got a used one for under 200, but that's not too smart in my opinion. A new one here in l.a. at a dealer is about $452.00 The parts involved are under 2 or 3 bucks. I'm guessing the connector costs more than the potentiometers. The bell crank (assembly that the apps is setting in) is 90% of the cost of manufacture.
There is a 6 pin connector in the tpps. I'm guessing +,-, and ground for both potentiometers. (unless they just use a 6 pin because that's what they have.) The connectors are gold plated like we use in the studios. So you know they don't want to have a bad rap if the connection starts going bad even if the part is good. If you have a studio on the beach here in l.a., it goes without saying that you need gold plated connectors way worse than the dudes 10 miles inland. ANything else will go bad sooner rather than later.
You stand to make a LOT of money ( and everyone will become your friend) if you can figure out which generic apps to buy and install on your dodge. You will even make more if you can find one with the same 6 pin connector and then you won't have to monkey with changing them.
If I wasn't way too **** busy with my business, I would have done that just to see if I could. I've got a lot of VOM's and all of that. I'm not sure if there is an actual circuit inside the apps sensor, or if it is strictly 2 pots. Maybe someone will chime in who has taken theirs apart. Still, the circuit would rarely be the part to go bad, just the pot. A lot of times, the pot will have the value AND the mfgr. stamped right on it. Then it would be a no-brainer.
Also, since it's going bad, you can't use your ohmmeter and assume you will have an accurate reading of what a new one SHOULD be. because yours has already gone bad.
I'm guessing you can sell 1 a day on ebay for $150. each. This would cause dodge to drop their price quite quickly..
12-28-2005, 06:46 PM
#10
Registered User
By the way, a TPS is technically NOT the same as the apps.
TPS senses the throttle position (you actually still control your throttle).
APPS senses where your pedal is so the computer can make you THINK you are controlling the the throttle. (automatic pedal position sensor.....I think). In the case of the APPS, your computer tells the injectors to put more fuel in, NOT your foot....but it did a pretty good job of faking me out for a couple years...until a cummins mechanic told me the scoop. He wasn't good for much else, but he did teach me that one thing I wished I would have known much sooner.
TPS senses the throttle position (you actually still control your throttle).
APPS senses where your pedal is so the computer can make you THINK you are controlling the the throttle. (automatic pedal position sensor.....I think). In the case of the APPS, your computer tells the injectors to put more fuel in, NOT your foot....but it did a pretty good job of faking me out for a couple years...until a cummins mechanic told me the scoop. He wasn't good for much else, but he did teach me that one thing I wished I would have known much sooner.
12-28-2005, 08:36 PM
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Accelerator pedal position sensor is a pot with 2 switches built-in, 1 switch is for idle and 1 switch is for off idle. this is from the manual. also any adjustment made to the position of sensor destroys it's calibration. why they use 2 switches I don't know 
12-28-2005, 09:56 PM
#12
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You really have me curious. If I get time I may dismantle mine and see what gives.
Many (or most) pots are made so they can be considered an off-switch when they are down. But rather than have the default at zero, dodge must have it high enough so 1/2 volt gets by.....probably so the truck will consider "off" 8 or 9 hundred rpm rather than 0 rpm. I have a feeling if you loosen the 2 screws in the back you can take it right to zero.....This tells me that dodge was TOO **** CHEAP to just put a 10 cent resistor in series so that it would always default to zero plus 1/2VCD. Rather than use one that "would" default to zero, but bump it up to near 1/2VDC, then tighten the bolts with locktite and call it a part you are not supposed to service.
The old one I took out had a default voltage listed on the back as .593 VDC. The new one was default listed at .425 VDC. They could very easily take an extra 5 minutes to make them all exactly .500 VDC, but that would cost them money and to no benefit. The computer "learns" your particular apps when you calibrate it after leaving the key on/batteries unhooked for a while....By the way, my old one tested at around .435VDC when it went bad, which stands to reason. The resistance would theoretically go up ever so slightly as the resistance band(s) wear thin, reducing the voltage that could get by..
Many (or most) pots are made so they can be considered an off-switch when they are down. But rather than have the default at zero, dodge must have it high enough so 1/2 volt gets by.....probably so the truck will consider "off" 8 or 9 hundred rpm rather than 0 rpm. I have a feeling if you loosen the 2 screws in the back you can take it right to zero.....This tells me that dodge was TOO **** CHEAP to just put a 10 cent resistor in series so that it would always default to zero plus 1/2VCD. Rather than use one that "would" default to zero, but bump it up to near 1/2VDC, then tighten the bolts with locktite and call it a part you are not supposed to service.
The old one I took out had a default voltage listed on the back as .593 VDC. The new one was default listed at .425 VDC. They could very easily take an extra 5 minutes to make them all exactly .500 VDC, but that would cost them money and to no benefit. The computer "learns" your particular apps when you calibrate it after leaving the key on/batteries unhooked for a while....By the way, my old one tested at around .435VDC when it went bad, which stands to reason. The resistance would theoretically go up ever so slightly as the resistance band(s) wear thin, reducing the voltage that could get by..
12-29-2005, 10:59 PM
#14
Registered User
My understanding is that the automatic transmission trucks have a DIFFERENT apps than the trucks with standard transmissions. However, I think that the 24V auto's are all the same, as well as the 24V standards being the same.
When I bought mine, I believe it was advertized as a apps that is for automatics from 98.5 till 04 or something like that. I ordered it and it worked (mine is a 98.5).
When I bought mine, I believe it was advertized as a apps that is for automatics from 98.5 till 04 or something like that. I ordered it and it worked (mine is a 98.5).