Puke

Unless things have changed the last few years in the industry.
Trucks and SUV's have had the highest markup. With small economy vehicles having the least markup.

When a loaded truck was around $30k. The cost of production was just under $15k.

A 7,000 economy car cost them 6,000 to build.

It stands to reason they are going to mark up the VP44 double.

So they have traditionally been able to double their money on the big ticket trucks...being able to help with the income they have to pay to their stockholders.. The only TRUE way to reduce this discrepancy is the reduce barriers to competition so more people will take the risk to produce real trucks. There must be 20 car mfgrs. out there making economy cars...hence, major competition. But not too many real truck manufacturers out there. I was excited to hear when toyota and nissan got into the truck business, but they never really decided to make anything very heavy duty. I had 3 nissan
truck's over the years that went 300K each without flinching, and would switch in a second back if they would make a real truck. I can't use a small truck, and their titan is not geared to be a workhorse truck like the american ones are. So we are stuck choosing from a small handful of manufacturers if we want a real truck. It would be nice to have 20 one ton truck models to choose from when buying a new truck.

Yukon Dodge

Phox...you would say something like that!

jrs_dodge_diesel

Everyone here knows that Bosch makes the VP44 for our trucks. Most all of the retail shops that sell replacement VP44's are also certified by Bosch for rebuilding them. For a shop to be certified by Bosch requires the shop to have certain electronic test equipment for troubleshooting and diagnostics aside from the tools required to take them apart. A shop owner would be looking at about $150,000+ for test equipment for fixing a VP44's (test equipment ain't cheap, especially specialized test equipment). So I can understand where the markup is coming from in the price of a rebuilt VP44.

1trick4u

Let me ask you this then,from what you read on here and other Dodge Cummins websites,How long do you think it would take to sell 150 VP44's?Maybe a week?Meaning initial return on your investment mighty quick giving you a license to steal.

If we banded together and class action'd Cummins,id bet we could get em to take care of the our vp44 problems and most likely the 053 block.

I dont really care as ive got plenty of $$$$$ to replace anything that ever goes wrong with my truck.I know some of you are not so lucky.
Rest of comment removed by Moderator

Patrick Campbell

1trick4u you need to calm down a little bit.

I agree, $1000+ for a VP44 is a ripoff. This VP44 is NOT for our vehicle. I saw this a week ago and e-mailed the guy and asked him if he had any VP44s for our trucks and provided him with the part numbers. He said no. I wondered if a VP44 in Europe with the correct part number is much cheaper than it is here. I really don't have the means to find out so what can you do?

Piers sells new VP44s for $1450.00 if I am not mistaken.

Bart Timothy

Maybe Bosch is ripping everyone off, but I've see the prices pump rebuilders/vendors pay for parts needed in the "average" VP44 rebuild and $500 just barely covers it.

lglamb

good thing, since you just wasted $500 on that pump.

I wondered the same thing, if other applications might work.
Some web searches soon indicated that not all vp44's are equal.

mikmaze

no no no, buy 6 of them, run them all and tie all of the outputs together from each pump and connect that single ouput to each injector line should smoke a little just off idle.......

rammtuff

The real issue should be why we don't have diesel cars here??
I'd love to have a 330ci diesel. Or a Honda Accord diesel getting 55mpg.
Should never have to replace the IP if you monitor fuel pressure anyway.

smokin05

Man what a hornet’s nest we have stirred up here...and I DID NOT DO IT this time!

Ok from the top.....vp44 cost lots of money can it be rebuilt? You bet it can probably close to as good as new....and cheaper.\

but a lot of guys pull lots of weight a long ways from home and cant afford a break down so they pay the VERY inflated cost for the security of a factory reman pump or new....if you want cheaper stuff its out there but I cant say how it ranks in reliability?

Last Nissan and Toyota will have a DIESEL 3/4 TON out in 1 year I believe...and sorry to say it’s got more HP than our trucks (stock that is)
However don’t look for the prices of these trucks to come down...its not smart business

if for and dodge can build a truck for 15k and sell it for 30k the foreign guys will do it for 9k and still sell for 30k why drive down the market...

I saw on TV the other night a special about G.M.'s wages and the retirement pension they pay out every month verses a unnamed overseas auto maker ...it like 2 dollars an hour w/ no pension vs. 28 dollars an hour w/ a pension plan.....has anyone ever tried to buy a Toyota? They don’t come off there prices very much!

Puke

Toyota doesn't pay someone $50. per hour to press a button on a pump as each car goes by to put 5 gal. in. But GM is probably close to that at most of their plants, which puts their cost of that labor including benefits at around $80 to 100 for each hour...(Unless they have finally mechanized and eliminated that due to the high cost of the unions.)

GM was paying around $40./hr to do just that in the late 80s.--which is why the plant here in van nuys, ca is now a shopping center complete with home depot and home town buffet.

Even if you have to do it (put a couple gallons gas in each car) by yourself (not by pressing a button), the market at that time would not even bear $10. per hour in pumping cost. Welcome to the twisted economics of companies who got unions because they deserved them, and then the unions slowly killed what was paying them and started shrinking.

The inevitable WILL happen sooner or later. If you need to charge more than the market will bear, sooner or later, your company will fail.

Right now the market will bear high prices for trucks, but the more people who get into the business, the more competition there will be. Albeit, the real reason many people don't compete in that business is the EPA and regulations, the same reason nobody dares try to open new oil refineries in the USA,..... it's too hard to fight the EPA, SCAQMD, etc.,

BY THE WAY, HERE IN CALIFORNIA, THE STATE DOES NOT ALLOW THE SALES OF THE DIESEL MERCEDES (UNLESS THAT JUST CHANGED WITHOUT MY KNOWING) DUE TO THEIR SMOG RULES. I THINK THEY LET TRUCKS IN IS BECAUSE THEY ARE HEAVIER.

AAmeeting

Does anyone have a shread of credible evidence? i.e parts list, someone with expierience? Because otherwise I think this subject has been exhausted

Puke

I thought there was some either at the beginning of this thread.....or another thread like it.

xp8103

Finally, someone speaking a little common sense. The VP44 may not be the best pump but it works and there are many here with originals with 6 figure mileage. It is built to expect a certain amount of fuel for operation and lubrication. If it doesnt get it, it can fail. But the REASON fails is NOT because of the VP44 itself, rather a lackidaisical transfer pump made by Carter. I'll bet the guys with the FASS units don't have VP44 problems. Nor the guys with FP gauges.

storx

actually the Original VP44 pump was a 4 cylinder pump later test showed as a very reliable pump... the 4 banger vp44 is one of the most looked after performance pumps in europe... well according to the bosch books.... years later the vp-44 was modified to the constraints of 6 and 8 cylinder engines.... oh wow i didnt know there was a 8 cylinder version of this pump... hmm i wander if there is any internals that can be interchanged for upgrades?.... ill have to do more reading tonight....