P.J

Okay, I have some bad news to report with my new Campaign 504 pump.
It stinks

I swapped out a perfectly fine pump (15psi idle, 12.5-13psi WOT) for a pump that shows 13.5 idle and I can drop to 10 psi WOT.

Very dissapointed with my results. Pretty sure I'll be putting my other Carter back on and keeping this one as a spare. I thought I read reports of 18 idle and 15 WOT??

I'm throughly confused. Anyone know what exactaly is improved about this pump besides the pressure switch included with the kit?

P.J

Got it down to 9 out on the highway when I romped on it this afternoon.


Anyone?

I'm confused. Is this supposed to have a longer life expectancy?

I read through the paperwork that came with the pump (don't you now it has VP-44 replacement instuctions ) Anyway, the pressure switch pops at 3.5 psi. This makes me wonder. Are they satisfied with the pressure I am seeing now, it is 3 times higher than the warning light?

AggieJustin

The main difference in the pump as I understand it, is that it has an internal bypass in the event the pump fails. Instead of pulling fuel through the rotor in the pump, it can bypass the rotor and pull through an open path. It's just supposed prevent the fuel flow from being cut off if the pump fails in a condition where the rotor freezes up.

FIRECAT7000

Pj - You Read Correctly In My Case. I Have A Stock 99. I Put This New Campaign Pump On With A Full Vulcan Bigline/relocation Kit And Was Shocked To See The Fuel Pressure Gauge Reading 17-18psi At Idle And Nothing Under 14-15ish At Full Throttle. It's Been That Way For Over A Month Now. The Question Is--how Long Can This Last??????? I Believe The Pressure Varies Greatly Between New Pumps Right Out Of The Box And I Got Lucky (for Now)!!!!!

P.J

Firecat, I was wondering if you were going to pop back in.

I'm still thinking about what I should do here. The pump is probably within factory specs, so taking it back is probably out of the question.

Man, I was all excited about the extra 2.5 psi I was going to have.

dodgeguy71

Talked to a guy at Cummins today. He said the only difference in the pumps was the switch that turns on the check engine light. Mentioned something about bus drivers and not noticing or caring that the bus felt under powered and not pulling off to the side of the road. So this is more or less an idiot light switch on the new pump. He also said of the old LP, or like I(we) have the truck will run if the LP quits, it just pulls fuel thru the LP.

I asked what was considered good fuel pressure at WOT and he said no less than 5psi and has seen one at the shop that had 3psi and they tried everything to boost it up but thats the best it would do at WOT. He said you could put big lines and all that on from LP to VP but that would not cure the flow/pressure problem, the problem is in the pickup tube in the tank, not large enough, something about 3/8" line? So I gathered that if you increase the size of the pickup tube in the tank and do big lines like vulcans kit....that would be alright. So according to this guy, nothing different about the new style LP compared to the old other than the fact that the new style has the idiot light to say...." I have a problem in the engine department"

P.J

I had a feeling.

Oh well, anyone want to buy a pressure switch and tapped banjo bolt.

jerky1280

I just got the kit from one of the local Cummins places. Ended up being $98 shipped. The kit includes a tapped banjo bolt (with tiny holes), to which an included fuel pressure sensor for an idiot light hooks up to. In newer model emergency vehicles, the sensor is hooked into a "stop engine" alarm. If the fuel pressure drops below 3.5 psi for over 30 seconds, a light comes on telling you to shut off the engine. If the pressure stays down for 30 more seconds and you don't shut it down, it shuts it down for you.

Since I already have a fuel pressure gauge, all I was interested in was the pump. However, it was disappointing to read the recall (shop included it with the kit), describing how big a problem it is with emergency vehicles, when they don't do squat for us.

Mglass1045

Can you get this super duper new and improved pump at a dealer? I have inside connections at a local dodge dealer. I haven't checked it out yet though.

piperca

This super duper new and improved pump is nothing but a glorified Carter OEM LP. I installed one at 135K and now at 136K (and some change) I am trying to source a replacement ... utter junk!!! Don't waste your money, move on and away from the Carter/Delphi, it's just not worth it. Yes, they are cheap at $70, but not when you ultimately have to spend more to replace it ...

Dodge Demon

Same pump,different number,same BS from Dodge, same thing with thier intank lift pump, now thier saying with the intank LP, its not about pressure its about volume, let me run thru this,with the OEM LP (when it was new) supossedly put out approx, 15 PSI, and with the check valve in the return line comming out of the VP44 ,the internal PSI in the VP44 was held at 14 PSI, leaving approx 1 PSI returning to the tank. Now in back of this check valve (one might call it a regulating valve) theres a little hole were the excess fuel comes out into the check valve and return line, now this hole is no more than 1/4 in dia.if the OEM LP at 15 PSI there will be a certain amount of fuel returning to the tank,(keep in mind the more PSI,the more fuel you can force thru that hole) so if with the NEW and FIX IT ALL intank pump that only puts out 8 PSI the volume of fuel put thru will be considerably less than if the PSI was at 15 PSI. Look at it this way,take a 1/4 in inside dia. hose, make it 3 ft long, dont matter much about the length, hold one end shut and fill it up with (we can use water or any liquid for this, Diesel fuel is kinda messy). when its full take your finger off the end and see how the liquid runs out, with no pressure pushing it out it will flow only a certain amount of liquid thru it, no more no less,BUT use that same hose and hook a pump on it and force the liquid thru it with say 15 PSI, you will find in the same amount of time it took for the liquid to run out by gravity, in that same time frame pumping at 15 PSI you can pump 5 times as much liquid thru that same hose. So with the OEM LP a 15 PSI there will be a certain amount pumped thru but with 8 PSI the volume pumped thru would be at least only half, so someone please tell me how Dodge said, at the start of thier LP troubles that the OEM LP has to run around 15 PSI to pump a certain amount of fuel, then in thier wisdom, comes out with a pump that puts out 8 PSI and it tells us it pumps more fuel, either they honestly think we are like a bunch of sheep or they themselves are so stupid they actually believe what they tell us or they'er giving us a snow job, i;ll go with the last one. Only thing any Dodge Cummins owner should do is never ever buy another Carter pump, go with one of the after market pumps and be virtually trouble free and in the process get longer life out of the VP44, I myself installed a Walbro inline pump with a regulator to keep pressure at the VP44 between 17 and 20 PSI, got over 4000 miles on it now and it never skips a beat,runs silent too, has any amount of PSI (up to 100 PSI) that you want to set it at, but of course one shouldnt run over 30 PSI thru the VP44,but at 17 to 20 PSI theres lots of fuel for the engine and as much or more being returned to the tank,keeping the VP44 cool and the VP44 can take that kind of pressure. I had a (excuse my language) GM-6.2 Diesel that I put on 400,000 miles on and never ever had a problem with the inline lift pump.

Dodge Demon

Theres one more thing I forgot to mention, in my last post i said there was a 1/4 in dia. hole comming out of the VP44 on the return line,( now i'm not 100 % sure its a 1/4 in., could be even smaller but its no larger) now picture this, if the inlet line is 3/8s (and it is),and if one put on 3/8s hose (its 5/16 now) for the return and ( here's were you guys might freak out) one drilled this 1/4 in.dia. hole in the VP44 inj. pump body out to at least 3/8s,same size as the lines and used a Walbro (because of virtually unlimited PSI it puts out) one could pump more than twice as much fuel thru the VP44 at 17 to 20 PSI thru a 3/8s hole as opposed to the 1/4 in hole, thus the pump would stay exceptionally cool with all that fuel going thru. If I could get a complete picture breakdown of the VP44 to see what if anything is behind this 1/4 in hole, I have a suspicion its just a cavity for fuel but I dont know for sure as yet and I wouldnt want to drill into something critical in the VP44, but if I can find out that theres nothing behind there except a cavity for fuel I will drill mine out. Maybe someone out there has a old VP44 thats shot and could take it apart and see how its made,maybe even post pictures of the inside.

P.J

You are correct Sir! Once I have to drill something on my VP44, you've crossed over into a world where 99% of us are probably not willing to go.

Dodge Demon

You dont happen to have a complete schematic of the VP44 ,do you? If I knew for sure there was only a cavity to store fuel behind that hole,i'd drill it in a second, run my Walbro so the fuel is pushing out the hole as I drill,fuel flow will wash the cuttings out.might use 5 gal fuel doing it but what the heck.

P.J

This should help:
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/u...&albumid=17275