AlpineRAM

I've got more than 200 k miles on my VP44, approx 90 k miles tapped wire, and it runs on an 800:1 ratio of TCW3 2-stroke oil.
When rebuilding the engine there were no abnormal carbon deposits etc.

Since the diesel is different over here your mileage may vary.

HTH

AlpineRAM

RowJ

1 oz. Liq Cooled 2-cycle oil to 6 gal Diesel. Do you notice a difference with vs without?
Why TCW-3 instead of TC, which is designed for higher cyl. head temps? Any particular reason?

RJ

AlpineRAM

TCW3 is available over here- only reason I use it
I think the cyl. head temps don't come into play here- at the temp the TCW3 breaks down the VP44 is a heap of ashes.
Without I have more noise from the VP, (checked with a sthethoscope) and slightly lower EGTs (half a needle's width, but I may well imagine a difference)
No real difference in mileage on mine.

Markus

RowJ

I'm suspect TCW-3 works as well also! On this side of the Atlantic, air cooled, TC rated, 2 cycle oil is less expensive!
I thought maybe you had some engineers reason for the TCW-3!

RJ

billmac

From the many threads that I have read on this site as well as other web sites, the TCW-3 is an ashless product. I'm not sure about the regular (TC) 2 cycle oil. I've read the label on a couple of those containers and I didn't see the term "ashless". I'm sure that you've noticed at Wally World, the regular oil comes in much smaller containers and would be cost prohibitive in my opinion assuming you add it at a ratio of 200:1 or 128:1 which are the two most recommended ratios that I've seen for second generation trucks.

jentas

I also exclusively run TCW-3 from wally world in the blue container at somewhere around a 128:1 ratio (something like 1 ounce per gallon). That is the cheapest I can find locally, and it is ashless, which is supposedly the best for this application.

RowJ

Todays TC or 'Air Cooled' 2 cycle oil is very low ash but can not officially be classified Ashless. I don't see a problem at the level members use it but it's still a point worth considering.

RJ

billmac

At a ratio of 800:1, I wouldn't expect any deposits from the TCW-3 oil that you are using - that's a rather small application. I believe that member Supersonictoys said that he was adding one quart of Wally World TCW-3 oil to about 30.625 gals. of fuel. That equates to about a 122.5:1 ratio. His normal fill-up was at 1/8th of a tank which, if his truck's fuel gauge was accurate, means it had about 4.375 gals, assuming the truck had a 35 gal. tank. This routine occurred over a 18,000 mile period which in his view resulted in the excessive carbon/soot deposits in the truck's engine. Of course his truck is a third generation 5.9 so maybe that makes a difference.

89dieselkong

I just stopped using 2-stroke from Wally World. It does indeed quiet things down, however, after just changing my fuel filter the other day, and seeing that it was black after 3000 or so miles, I am not taking any chances on build-up in the motor. I was very meticulous with making sure the correct ratio was mixed everytime as well.

The comparison that was done between the all the additives on diesel place (or whatever site it was) is somewhat outdated now and really can't be used for comparison purposes. I had been using power service (white and grey bottles) for a few years, and the reason I switched was due to the lack of lubricity offered according to the chart when compared to 2-stroke. After a little more research into power service and a call to the company itself, the Slickdiesel additive that they offer now allows power service additives to fall within the 520-460 lubricity range that we need. So now I figure if power service lubricates as well as 2-stroke, plus offers anti-gel properties and other bonuses, why take the chance on 2-stroke??

Please don't take this as a bash on using 2-stroke, I haven't really heard any adverse affects on anyones engine, and I am not affiliating myself with Power Service by any means (it's just what I use) this is just what I have noticed from my personal observations

AlpineRAM

I noticed that with the filters over here with extremely clean diesel some filters turned black after some time- in one case we had a vehicle where we changed the fuel filter twice (office mishap) with approx. 10 minutes of runtime between changes. (And 3 days parked time of the vehicle)- The filter was black. We then tested with some other filters that we put in a jar of clean diesel and some had the media go black within a day. The supplier stated that this is a normal and expected behavior of the filter media, the material swells up a little and creates the filtering efficiency, and the material must not be dried or cleaned after it had been immersed in diesel. The color change gave them some info if a filter had been returned or there was a warranty /engine repair claim associated with the filter.
They stated that the 2-stroke oil I specified was in no way detrimental to their filter, but made the disclaimer that they could only inform me about the filter and not the rest of the vehicle.
I don't know whether you had the same phenomenon on your truck, or whether it is possible that you had a tank full of contaminated diesel when you noticed this, but my personal experience is that there was no difference in fuel filter life and efficiency with 2stroke on all the vehicles where we use it.

AlpineRAM

VADSLRAM

If your filter plugs black, It's probably not because of a quart of something in 35 gal of fuel. More likely something in the 35 gallons itself.
I fueled up on the NJ turnpike a couple of years back heading home from a family visit and didn't make it down the eastern shore before the filter plugged. I changed it outside Dover and again at the bridge tunnel. As soon as I got home I pumped the tank dry and changed the filter again. The fuel looked almost milky, kind of like slightly muddy water
Now I carry a spare filter in a ziplock bag under the back seat.

89dieselkong

It didn't plug up, I never lost any fuel pressure or MPG during trying to use it. I also use the same fiters (Chrysler for oil and fuel) and fill up almost exclusively at the same 2 stations. It is possible that I hit a bad batch of fuel to make it turn black, but I really think it was the oil. There seems to be just a little too much speculation on using 2 stroke. I understand the lubrication properties, but everyone just keeps talking about how much quieter their engines are. That could just be from the oil having a lower flash point than diesel and causing the timing to be affected thus affecting the sound. THe only posts I've read regarding long term affects were 1 that said everything was fine, and 2 that said everything had excess carbon build up. That and why do so many people claim that they run 2-stroke for 4-5 tanks and then run an additive to "clean" out their systems and/or injectors on the 6th one with something like PS or Stanadyne? Wouldn't that stand to reason that the 2 stroke is causing deposits to build up in their systems? Also stated is that if you use too much of it the flashpoint lowers enough to rob horsepower and cause build up. That seems to me that if using 3 times the recommended amount will case this, then using a 3rd of the amount (the recommended amount) might cause the same effects only over a longer period of time. Like I mentioned before, I am not an advocate either way and try not to preach to use either one, it just seems that there is too much speculation as to whether or not 2 stroke REALLY works and what the long term results are...

RowJ

Your "If A....then B must also be true" does not work for me.
In an overfueled CTD, with a lot of smoke, you will probably get build up with or without 2 cycle oil.

But given the cylinder hesd temps of a Cummins 5.9L, I can't see 1 oz per gallon (128:1) not burning cleanly.
And, 2 strokes mix three times as much oil per gallon and will burn a good quality 2 cycle oil completely.... with much lower cyl temps.

RJ

AlpineRAM

Well, I would not see any reason to add 2-stroke to a 3rd gen, where the excessive carbon buildup has been noticed. (There's no VP44 to lube, AFAIK the CP3s aren't problematic, and the injectors die for other reasons than lack of lubricity)
On the engines I work on I also found some reasons for excessive carbon buildup:
extremely poor quality diesel
Too much idle/lowest load runtime
Too much used engine oil added to the fuel and low load conditions (25-50% WMO)
defective valve gaskets and run out valve guides under low load
bad injectors
So, to me it looks like that, the CTD will need enough load to have 1200F EGT for some minutes or longer every week, then it will stay clean.
Most problems came from an engine that did not get up to this EGTs because it was used as a backup generator and was idling all day long at 1500 rpm, but no load- it was driven by the generator.
In the wood processors and skiing slope machines these engines run WOT all day long and log 10-20 k hours without problems, on teardown there is no excessive carbon. (And they run approx 5-7% WMO, so the operator does not have to pay to get rid of it)

So, my take on the 2-stroke oil is that you can use it and it should not lead to carbon buildup if the engine is run at high power and rpm.

Just my 2c

AlpineRAM

kreynolds

If the use of 2-stroke produces more carbon build-up in the cylinders, wouldn't we see noticably more smoke out of the tailpipe? I have been using 2-stroke off and on for about two years. I don't see more smoke when using it as opposed to not. The only two things I have found that affect smoke output are the weight of my foot and air temperature(more smoke in the summer, less in the winter).