What did you do to your Gen 1 today?
07-28-2015, 11:28 AM
#1186
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They were in a parked car, engine running, wide open space down by the lake. CO came from the cabin heater, which drew outside air across the cast iron cylinder jugs with aluminum crankcase and heads. Cast iron to aluminum (great expansion difference) joints carrying exhaust components at the head/cylinder and manifold/head ventilated by air then used to heat the cabin. CO poisoning impairs judgement first, then motor functions, like breathing.
Back in Nader's day, testing with windows cracked didn't relieve the problem at all because it was so severe. High accident rate with Corvairs were attributed to driver impairment from CO poisoning.
Yea, I have an attitude about it. Bad engineering leading to death bothers me.
Back in Nader's day, testing with windows cracked didn't relieve the problem at all because it was so severe. High accident rate with Corvairs were attributed to driver impairment from CO poisoning.
Yea, I have an attitude about it. Bad engineering leading to death bothers me.
I also read (just now) that there was a "auxiliary heater" that was in the front of the car that would spew co into the cab as well, whether parked or moving along. Crazy stuff these engineers did without any real world testing.... and then sold it.
My wife's 84 vette comes to mind..... (sold it years ago just to get rid of it)
07-28-2015, 12:28 PM
#1187
Registered User
I must be too young to remember that issue with the cars. My apologies...
I also read (just now) that there was a "auxiliary heater" that was in the front of the car that would spew co into the cab as well, whether parked or moving along. Crazy stuff these engineers did without any real world testing.... and then sold it.
My wife's 84 vette comes to mind..... (sold it years ago just to get rid of it)
I also read (just now) that there was a "auxiliary heater" that was in the front of the car that would spew co into the cab as well, whether parked or moving along. Crazy stuff these engineers did without any real world testing.... and then sold it.
My wife's 84 vette comes to mind..... (sold it years ago just to get rid of it)
GM didn't use a separate heat exchanger, but rather sent engine cooling air into the cabin. True to form, their version of the gasoline heater had a weak heat exchanger.
07-28-2015, 02:43 PM
#1188
Registered User
I nearly caused my wife, girlfriend at the time, to succumb to CO in a situation similar to this. Clapped out old 78 Malibu, cold wet winter months and swung by a buddies shop for something. She decided to stay in the car with the heater on. I was in the shop a bit longer then I had planned and when I came out to the car she was barely conscious, and said to me, "I'm so sleepy". I knew exactly what is was and lowered the windows and got cruising down the road to move the bad air out. She perked up pretty quick after that.
We laugh and joke about it to this day.
We laugh and joke about it to this day.
07-28-2015, 04:43 PM
#1189
Registered User
Wow, close call Brain!
07-28-2015, 05:33 PM
#1190
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A few blocks from where I live an entre family perished in their sleep, when my wife was in HS. They were classmates. Mom, dad, son, daughter and the family dog.
Furnace backup.
Importance of co detectors....
Furnace backup.
Importance of co detectors....
07-28-2015, 07:51 PM
#1191
Registered User
That's why I have never used the LP furnace in my camper. I can't find a CO detector that will work in such a confined space and I just don't quite trust the 28 year old heater and exhaust not to kill me.
07-28-2015, 08:20 PM
#1192
Registered User
Why wouldn't an ordinary battery powered CO detector work in the trailer? I used to have one in my conversion van. I've got both CO and smoke detectors in my Fiver. New ones come with CO, smoke, and flammable gas detectors.
07-28-2015, 10:39 PM
#1193
Registered User
Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place for a CO alarm. All of the CO alarms I looked at stated that they needed to be at least 12ft from the potential CO source. Camper is 16ft with the furnace in the middle. The math doesn't add up to 12ft separation.
07-29-2015, 06:52 AM
#1194
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Carbon Monoxide Questions and Answers | CPSC.gov
A lot more expensive than the home units, but probably have some sort of vibration / extremes of temperature change protection in them, as a house normally doesn't bounce around much, or get super hot, unless you live with Mknittle....
For your boat:Search co detector | West Marine
Apparently UL Listings for RV's are different than home CO Detectors:
RV Carbon Monoxide (CO) alarms Recreational Vehicle Carbon Monoxide Alarm | Quantum Group Inc. Quantum Group Inc
Amazon sells them, but again, you will pay :
07-29-2015, 08:09 AM
#1195
Registered User
An Atwood CO/gas combination detector commonly used in new RV's is about 50 bucks online. It is 12V only, and is famous for running the battery down in a few weeks if the RV is not plugged in.
Mine is mounted in the side of the kitchen cabinet near the floor, right by the entrance door. I suspect the most likely CO source would be a charcoal grill under the canopy.
Judging from the test tone, an alarm condition would wake the dead.
Mine is mounted in the side of the kitchen cabinet near the floor, right by the entrance door. I suspect the most likely CO source would be a charcoal grill under the canopy.
Judging from the test tone, an alarm condition would wake the dead.
07-30-2015, 02:43 PM
#1196
Registered User
Exactly. That's what I gather looking at the schematics. I know you've suggested the rectifier in the past. Your description of how to wire it into the system seems very easy. I'll consider this.
In my truck, there is no connector of any sort under the hood that I could find. Every wire, except for the ground, is individually run through the bulkhead connector on the driver's side of the firewall, according to the FSM.
Visibility is a concern but I'm not overly worried at all if the side marker doesn't flash. As oblivious as most drivers are, I generally don't change lanes if somebody is 2 lanes over and directly to my side. I'll consider a bridge rectifier as j_martin suggested.
Attached is a picture of the right side front lighting system in my 1990 FSM. The 4-way connector in the bottom center of the page and noted 'gas engine only'.
18BLK/YL* is the running light circuit.
18TN is the power from the turn signal switch.
When the running lights are on, the side marker grounds through the 18TN wire to the 18LG wire at the front bulb socket and to its ground.
My thought is to simply connect the 18TN wire from the side marker to the ground wire in the harness.
I also plan on adding a 4-way Weatherpack connector to the harness to emulate the schematics.
In my truck, there is no connector of any sort under the hood that I could find. Every wire, except for the ground, is individually run through the bulkhead connector on the driver's side of the firewall, according to the FSM.
Visibility is a concern but I'm not overly worried at all if the side marker doesn't flash. As oblivious as most drivers are, I generally don't change lanes if somebody is 2 lanes over and directly to my side. I'll consider a bridge rectifier as j_martin suggested.
Attached is a picture of the right side front lighting system in my 1990 FSM. The 4-way connector in the bottom center of the page and noted 'gas engine only'.
18BLK/YL* is the running light circuit.
18TN is the power from the turn signal switch.
When the running lights are on, the side marker grounds through the 18TN wire to the 18LG wire at the front bulb socket and to its ground.
My thought is to simply connect the 18TN wire from the side marker to the ground wire in the harness.
I also plan on adding a 4-way Weatherpack connector to the harness to emulate the schematics.
I received a 1505pc. Weatherpack kit yesterday which will come in handy building a harness for the front lighting system.
07-30-2015, 02:50 PM
#1197
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Today, I played with my radiator.
Nothing worse than having to do what you paid someone else to do, eh ?
Monday, I dropped off my radiator to the shop, originally to fix the petcock, and of which they did a very nice clean job. I also asked that the radiator be boiled out, pressure tested, and made sure it was 100%. Well, I think they did 3 of the 4 tasks. I can't help but wonder what they "boiled it out with". When I picked it up, the white deposits (solder bloom) was quite visible.
Although it looked minimally different than what I remember dropping it off as, I asked him (the radiator dude) why there was still deposits inside there, after their "boiling" procedure. He said "they can't remove everything unless they remove the tanks, wire brush the crud off, and resolder the tanks back on. He didn't want to do this, as the radiator is 23 years old, and he said the flow was excellent for it's vintage".
Well, knowing me, I thought okay, I'll take it back and put it in, now that it can be drained without removing the lower hose once or twice a year. well, that didn't last very long. I decided to research what they use to "boil" radiator minerals out of them, and found this:
Oxalic acid to remove the gunk
Sodium Carbonate to nullify or stop the acidic process after cleaning.
So I went on my quest. True value hardware for the Oxalic acid (it's called "wood bleach" in the paint aisle) which cost a big $6.00 and the Sodium carbonate was found at HD in their pool supply dept. It's a stronger version of the sodium bicarbonate we're all fond of as Baking Soda.
I put the radiator on a surface, leveled it out, and put the cap on. I took a hose connected it to my Hot water heater, and filled a bucket of hot water to 2 gallons. Mixed in 1 3/4 containers of oxalic acid, and stirred gently in the bucket. I then funneled the acid into the radiator.
10 minutes later, drained and rinsed out the rad, and there was almost zero mineral deposits left. I can't see any left in the cooling tubes, so I assume I got 99% of it out..
I then mixed up a couple gallons of the PH Up and neutralized the acid in the rad through a couple washings.
Tomorrow, I paint the radiator, and put it back in. I'm going to run distilled water in the engine for a day or so, then dump it all back out again. I'm thinking of putting some neutralizer in the distilled water to neutralize the engine block, but not sure its good to do that with 180,000 miles on it....
It's then I'll put my new Green antifreeze (conventional) back in and be done for the year with maintenance on the cooling system. New lower hose going on as well..
Nothing worse than having to do what you paid someone else to do, eh ?
Monday, I dropped off my radiator to the shop, originally to fix the petcock, and of which they did a very nice clean job. I also asked that the radiator be boiled out, pressure tested, and made sure it was 100%. Well, I think they did 3 of the 4 tasks. I can't help but wonder what they "boiled it out with". When I picked it up, the white deposits (solder bloom) was quite visible.
Although it looked minimally different than what I remember dropping it off as, I asked him (the radiator dude) why there was still deposits inside there, after their "boiling" procedure. He said "they can't remove everything unless they remove the tanks, wire brush the crud off, and resolder the tanks back on. He didn't want to do this, as the radiator is 23 years old, and he said the flow was excellent for it's vintage".
Well, knowing me, I thought okay, I'll take it back and put it in, now that it can be drained without removing the lower hose once or twice a year. well, that didn't last very long. I decided to research what they use to "boil" radiator minerals out of them, and found this:
Oxalic acid to remove the gunk
Sodium Carbonate to nullify or stop the acidic process after cleaning.
So I went on my quest. True value hardware for the Oxalic acid (it's called "wood bleach" in the paint aisle) which cost a big $6.00 and the Sodium carbonate was found at HD in their pool supply dept. It's a stronger version of the sodium bicarbonate we're all fond of as Baking Soda.
I put the radiator on a surface, leveled it out, and put the cap on. I took a hose connected it to my Hot water heater, and filled a bucket of hot water to 2 gallons. Mixed in 1 3/4 containers of oxalic acid, and stirred gently in the bucket. I then funneled the acid into the radiator.
10 minutes later, drained and rinsed out the rad, and there was almost zero mineral deposits left. I can't see any left in the cooling tubes, so I assume I got 99% of it out..
I then mixed up a couple gallons of the PH Up and neutralized the acid in the rad through a couple washings.
Tomorrow, I paint the radiator, and put it back in. I'm going to run distilled water in the engine for a day or so, then dump it all back out again. I'm thinking of putting some neutralizer in the distilled water to neutralize the engine block, but not sure its good to do that with 180,000 miles on it....
It's then I'll put my new Green antifreeze (conventional) back in and be done for the year with maintenance on the cooling system. New lower hose going on as well..
07-30-2015, 02:58 PM
#1199
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07-30-2015, 03:44 PM
#1200
Registered User
I replaced the petcock with a plug. I can get just as much or more coolant out with a siphon hose through the radiator cap hole, and not have to lay on my back to do it, or deal with it splashing all over frame and steering.