Starter = Studs instead of Bolts ???
05-30-2024, 05:45 AM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Starter = Studs instead of Bolts ???
Thread size = 10mm x 1.5
O.E.M. Bolt - Thread Length = 1-7/16"
Has anyone replaced the starter bolts with studs ?
Life would have to be easier if one could slide the heavy starter onto studs and thus have free hands to get some nuts started.
Is there some reason I am not seeing that would prevent the use of studs ?
I think I may have extra studs from when I replaced my exhaust manifold that I can customize to be suitable.
I intend to investigate this before I re-install my starter; especially clearance issues using ordinary nuts and socket as opposed to the weird 12-point bolt-heads.
If there is even a single hole where a stud was usable, life would have to be easier.
O.E.M. Bolt - Thread Length = 1-7/16"
Has anyone replaced the starter bolts with studs ?
Life would have to be easier if one could slide the heavy starter onto studs and thus have free hands to get some nuts started.
Is there some reason I am not seeing that would prevent the use of studs ?
I think I may have extra studs from when I replaced my exhaust manifold that I can customize to be suitable.
I intend to investigate this before I re-install my starter; especially clearance issues using ordinary nuts and socket as opposed to the weird 12-point bolt-heads.
If there is even a single hole where a stud was usable, life would have to be easier.
05-31-2024, 12:39 AM
#2
Registered User
Thread Starter
Well....., that's one starter hanging on new studs.
I was making the first stud when I saw a couple studs hiding under something on the bench; I checked them and they were exactly the thread and length I needed, so I only had to make the one.
The two extras I found were some I had made when I was making cylinder head studs for the 310A Kohler on my Cub Cadet; who would have thought they would be made to order for the starter on a Cummins.
ON EDIT: I got to thinking about this and I don't think that Kohler on the 1972 Louisville-built Cub Cadet would have Communist threads on the studs; so, now I am puzzled as to just what I would have had them for.
The stud I made is 2-1/2" long - 3/4" in the bell-housing, 1/2" unthreaded, and the rest sticking through the starter flange.
The two I found already made are 2-3/4" long - 15/16" in the bell-housing, 1/2" unthreaded, and the rest sticking through the starter flange.
Flange on these starters is 5/8" thick and factory bolt exposure is 3/4".
Once these were slathered in silver stuff and threaded in their new home, it was a simple matter to hang the 224-pound starter on them and leisurely add the 10mm Flat Washer, 7/16" Lock Washer, and big 17mm-headed nut = piece of Red Velvet Cake compared to the usual dangerous fight that it always is.
Every nut was easily accessible using a ratchet and the standard 8-inch extension.
I used the standard length socket as far as I could go and then switched to the Deep Well.
I ran into one almost major snag on the easiest to access nut in the bunch; the one closest to you and looking right at you when you are under there.
On that particular location, the starter housing has a "step" that is just exactly the distance away from the flange as the 2-1/2" length of my 17mm Deep Well Socket.
When that nut came to almost tight, the back edge of the socket dropped behind that "step" and there was no getting it out of there; I began to think I was going to have to leave it = no worries of it ever falling off going down the road.
In that condition, it was an easy matter to put on final torque; but, I would kinda liked to have had use of my only 17mm Deep Well to finish torquing the other two.
By loosening the nut to just the right sweet spot, I was able to wiggle and jiggle and finally coax the socket past that step and off there.
Now, I could have removed the offending stud and shortened it by maybe 3/8"; but, I liked having that bit of extra length there to help keep the heavy thing off my poor easily-cracked noggin.
When I tried my standard length socket, the end of the stud was flush with the end of the socket, poking right through the 3/8" square hole.
A little-bitty 12-point 10mm wrench has room to spare in there; not so with any of the 17mm boxed-ends I tried; no matter how I went at it, there was something wanting about four inches cut off the wrenches length.
My 17mm ratcheting wrenches, gear wrenches or whatever the correct term is, all had too much meat on them and were interfering with things instead of fitting onto the nut.
My present final solution was when I slipped my standard length 1/2"-drive socket on there, I could engage about half the length of the square drive in there and put plenty of power on the socket, so long as I remembered the precarious perch of the heavy wrench and long extension and didn't allow it to slip out and knock me unconscious; I had too many important things to do to be laying under there with Xes on my eyes and birds tweeting and circling my head.
I have my measurements; and, before my next starter endeavor, I intend to either have a medium length socket or another Deep Well like the one I already have and shorten it a bit; shortening an existing socket is not my favorite solution as I imagine they would turn the teeth backwards on even my Lenox blades; I guess an abrasive wheel would make short work of cutting one down to length; but, I am not a big fan of sparks flying and starting with a 4-1/2" wheel and watching it melt away to a 2-1/2" wheel in seconds.
So....., in retrospect....., do I like what I have done ----- I LOVE it !
Do I recommend it to others ----- HIGHLY !
I intend to lay in a supply of 10mm x 1.5 2-3/4"-long studs, enough to stud every engine on the place and a few spares to keep around.
A couple things I learned from this endeavor:
10mm clearance drill = 25/64"
Although I didn't precisely measure, the existing bolt-holes in the starter flange are much larger than the 10mm bolts that pass through them; if one were to strip the threads out of the Aluminum they thread into, it would be a simple matter to step up to the next larger size, Metric or American.
Other than the obvious huge advantage of being able to hang the starter on the studs and relax and regroup, with properly installed studs, the likely-hood of ever stripping out the threads of the soft Aluminum is non-existent so long as you don't drastically over-torque the nuts and thus turn the whole mess.
Another option I have used on other such projects is a set of "locator pins" = temporary studs that you thread in the holes, hang your object on the pins, and then one-by-one remove the pins and replace with the bolts.
A proper set of locator pins will have little hex-heads cut onto the ends such that a small socket or wrench can be used to back them out; I have seen them with only a slotted end for using a screw-driver.
Anything to prevent that big heavy illegitimate fatherless child from falling on your noggin.
I was making the first stud when I saw a couple studs hiding under something on the bench; I checked them and they were exactly the thread and length I needed, so I only had to make the one.
The two extras I found were some I had made when I was making cylinder head studs for the 310A Kohler on my Cub Cadet; who would have thought they would be made to order for the starter on a Cummins.
ON EDIT: I got to thinking about this and I don't think that Kohler on the 1972 Louisville-built Cub Cadet would have Communist threads on the studs; so, now I am puzzled as to just what I would have had them for.
The stud I made is 2-1/2" long - 3/4" in the bell-housing, 1/2" unthreaded, and the rest sticking through the starter flange.
The two I found already made are 2-3/4" long - 15/16" in the bell-housing, 1/2" unthreaded, and the rest sticking through the starter flange.
Flange on these starters is 5/8" thick and factory bolt exposure is 3/4".
Once these were slathered in silver stuff and threaded in their new home, it was a simple matter to hang the 224-pound starter on them and leisurely add the 10mm Flat Washer, 7/16" Lock Washer, and big 17mm-headed nut = piece of Red Velvet Cake compared to the usual dangerous fight that it always is.
Every nut was easily accessible using a ratchet and the standard 8-inch extension.
I used the standard length socket as far as I could go and then switched to the Deep Well.
I ran into one almost major snag on the easiest to access nut in the bunch; the one closest to you and looking right at you when you are under there.
On that particular location, the starter housing has a "step" that is just exactly the distance away from the flange as the 2-1/2" length of my 17mm Deep Well Socket.
When that nut came to almost tight, the back edge of the socket dropped behind that "step" and there was no getting it out of there; I began to think I was going to have to leave it = no worries of it ever falling off going down the road.
In that condition, it was an easy matter to put on final torque; but, I would kinda liked to have had use of my only 17mm Deep Well to finish torquing the other two.
By loosening the nut to just the right sweet spot, I was able to wiggle and jiggle and finally coax the socket past that step and off there.
Now, I could have removed the offending stud and shortened it by maybe 3/8"; but, I liked having that bit of extra length there to help keep the heavy thing off my poor easily-cracked noggin.
When I tried my standard length socket, the end of the stud was flush with the end of the socket, poking right through the 3/8" square hole.
A little-bitty 12-point 10mm wrench has room to spare in there; not so with any of the 17mm boxed-ends I tried; no matter how I went at it, there was something wanting about four inches cut off the wrenches length.
My 17mm ratcheting wrenches, gear wrenches or whatever the correct term is, all had too much meat on them and were interfering with things instead of fitting onto the nut.
My present final solution was when I slipped my standard length 1/2"-drive socket on there, I could engage about half the length of the square drive in there and put plenty of power on the socket, so long as I remembered the precarious perch of the heavy wrench and long extension and didn't allow it to slip out and knock me unconscious; I had too many important things to do to be laying under there with Xes on my eyes and birds tweeting and circling my head.
I have my measurements; and, before my next starter endeavor, I intend to either have a medium length socket or another Deep Well like the one I already have and shorten it a bit; shortening an existing socket is not my favorite solution as I imagine they would turn the teeth backwards on even my Lenox blades; I guess an abrasive wheel would make short work of cutting one down to length; but, I am not a big fan of sparks flying and starting with a 4-1/2" wheel and watching it melt away to a 2-1/2" wheel in seconds.
So....., in retrospect....., do I like what I have done ----- I LOVE it !
Do I recommend it to others ----- HIGHLY !
I intend to lay in a supply of 10mm x 1.5 2-3/4"-long studs, enough to stud every engine on the place and a few spares to keep around.
A couple things I learned from this endeavor:
10mm clearance drill = 25/64"
Although I didn't precisely measure, the existing bolt-holes in the starter flange are much larger than the 10mm bolts that pass through them; if one were to strip the threads out of the Aluminum they thread into, it would be a simple matter to step up to the next larger size, Metric or American.
Other than the obvious huge advantage of being able to hang the starter on the studs and relax and regroup, with properly installed studs, the likely-hood of ever stripping out the threads of the soft Aluminum is non-existent so long as you don't drastically over-torque the nuts and thus turn the whole mess.
Another option I have used on other such projects is a set of "locator pins" = temporary studs that you thread in the holes, hang your object on the pins, and then one-by-one remove the pins and replace with the bolts.
A proper set of locator pins will have little hex-heads cut onto the ends such that a small socket or wrench can be used to back them out; I have seen them with only a slotted end for using a screw-driver.
Anything to prevent that big heavy illegitimate fatherless child from falling on your noggin.
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