Started taking the truck apart to install my lift and crossover. Knowing the frame above the steering bracket is prone to cracking I cleaned it up real good. Yup, cracked right above the forward most hole for the bracket.

In anticipation for this problem I already had the frame reinforcing plate to go with the crossover. Plan to clean the cracked area very well and stick weld the cracked area back up, then weld the plate in to prevent further cracking. Will load pictures of the damage and install from this point on. Forgot to take pictures up to this point but ya'll ain't missed much.

 

DO NOT STICK WELD

https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...t299031p3.html read post 44

 

Thanks

 

Drill out the frame and plate.
POR-15 both sections.
Install grade "8" bolts.
And away you go.

I was taught never to weld a vehicle frame.

The drilling will not be easy. Go slow and use "cutting oil" and for the love of God, wear "wrap around" safety goggles/glasses.

You'll be fine.

Good luck.

 

If it was me, I'd stick weld it.

I've done it many times, and never had a problem. Grind it out, so you've got a clean surface. Lay a root pass of 6010, and grind out the slag to clean it up. Follow with a 7018.

Welding on a frame is fine, as long as you don't weld on the top or bottom "web" of a C-channel frame.

I guess I'm a little different, but I've had better results with Rustoleum satin black spray paint from Wal-mart than any fancy frame/underbody treatment I've seen.

Here's some pics from the last one Dad and I fixed:



Welded the crossmembers to keep the rivets from "working":




Fully boxed and sleeved:





--Eric

 

Well I didn't want to start an argument over welding but its done. Gotta get tires mounted and balanced tomorrow.

 

I know nothing about welding, but welding the riveted joints between the crossmember and the C channel is counter-intuitive to the way I understood frame manufacturing to be. Since these frames need to "flex" somewhat, even though it's an extremely small amount... (almost undetectable) by welding the joints, you prevent that from happening.. I was told that this would cause damage to the frame over time. I wonder if I was misinformed.

Well, if it works for you, I guess it's all good. The boxed frame looks really cool and I'm sure is mucho stronger as well.

 

The plate definitely added strength. And I wouldn't weld riveted pieces together either. As soon as I get to my pc I'll upload pictures. Still gotta get my new treads mounted.

Letting the truck sit 24 hrs then going to check the torque on everything before I drive into town to deal with the tires. I replaced all the u-bolts and in about 10 minutes time they had already stretched about 1/4 turn from the initial torque and check I did.

 

Why do you think these frames need to flex?

I know the frames DO flex...but I don't see how that is beneficial or ideal. Yes, I've flexed things up so hard that there are dents in the back of the cab from the bed. When you have sub-par suspension, I suppose frame flex allows for some additional articulation in a very crude sort of way. Nonetheless, with a good suspension, I can't thing of a reason why you would want the frame flexing.

Newer trucks went with hydroformed box frame design to help eliminate flexing.

There are many other parts that are "riveted" on, such as the rear spring hanger brackets. This isn't done to provide extra movement...because they don't move.

--Eric

 

With the forces put on these things, something has to give. Either it bends (flexes) or breaks. Take your pick.

 

I'm honestly not trying to be a smart alec, but why do you say this? Have you had experience where the frames just "broke"?

I can't say I've had *extensive* experience, but I think I've had alot more than most. I have an old '87 Dodge W150 that I'm boxing the frame on, adding additional crossmembers, etc, etc. I don't want the frame flexing around with a high hp, hard working rig with locked front/rear, 12,000 lb winches front/rear, etc. I want the frame stiff and solid and strong.

These "forces" that the frame are subjected too....if the forces are an input into the suspension, then I want the suspension to be able to had them. If the forces are torsional forces due to higher powertrain loads, I want extra reinforcement to handle the loads.

I had a Chevy 4x4 that had a much stronger/stiffer frame than these Dodges. I changed a tire one time in a pinch by inching the front end over an embankment. The frame was stiff enough that the rear tire came a foot of the ground, and I changed it out easily without a jack. The frames on these trucks were so still compared to the weight of the truck, that you can actuall pull a back wheel off, preload the axle to the frame with a heavy ratchet binder, and drive around with the truck as a 3 wheeler. There was never an issue with "something has to give or break". I subjected it to MUCH more than it was designed for...and nothing gave, and nothing broke! ...well, nothing pertaining to the frame or suspension

--Eric

 

Eric,

What I meant by "needing" to flex is that a riveted joint allows for flexing if the situation that the vehicle is put into forces it to occur. Welding on a frame ... again from what I read, reduces the strength of the frame where it's heated up. This is the primary reason they rivet the sections of frame together, as they don't expose the parts which are produced separately, to excessive heat while assembling.

The other reason for riveting frames is cost. Much cheaper to make smaller parts and rivet them together, than it is to make larger parts, and then heat treat them for strength.

Here is a tidbit I found just quickly searching schmoogle and welding truck frames..

1. any heat treated alloy is annealed thereafter, or it will crack; too hard; taking welder to it overhardens alloys, as they harden at room temperature.
2. any long objects will warp, if a local high heat is applied. that;s why they normally do this in jigs, under longitudinal stretch, to prevent warp.

You can easily find out why by just schmoogling it.

Frame issues have been in the "news" and these companies are doing everything to make the most of the situation, causing more truck sales.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuqESiO_MFM

For some reason, they don't show the dodge on the test, but I would bet they didn't find anything wrong with them..

 

Your also talking about high tensile heat treated frames which we do not have. I have welded for years both stick and wire welders as well as built commercial trailers for a large well known company and managed a welding supply store.

Based on my knowledge of welding you are better off welding with the proper rod on correct settings than mig welding. Anyone can run a mig welder with little knowledge and training. It is very easy for one to run to cold making only a surface weld that is worthless or run to hot resulting in a brittle weld equally as worthless.Mig welding is mainly used for high production welding as it's faster, cheaper and requires less training.

Stick welding is more commonly used in heavy duty structural welding. Withproper rods and settings it produces a superb weld.

 

Uh, I had better cut away the frame on my Nova then......

Frames flex because you wouldn't want to pay the price to keep them from flexing, and 80 percent of the populace would scream about the NVH factor.

Other than those 2 things, there isn't a real good reason to flex.

 

This is likely the biggest driver. I'm not concerned about the cost of welding the joints. I'm concerned about strength.

Yes, yes, and yes! I agree.

If you look at "up-fitters" guides, there are "rules" on where to drill/not drill and where to weld/not weld on frame sections. If you don't feel comfortable doing it, you probably shouldn't. However, if done right, there's nothing wrong with welding on a frame...and a LOT that could be beneficial.

I've never heard of a long-bed mega cab conversion having a frame that broke? ...and the frames are fishplated and heavily welded?

I would bet that the localized heating while welding on our frames doesn't change the metallurgy enough to matter. It's obvious the frame section near the gear box has a little too high brittleness and not enough toughness...hence the cracking problem, instead of plastic deformation of the metal.

That's what I thought as well.

--Eric