Shopping for transmission bands
02-15-2008, 09:46 PM
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Shopping for transmission bands
So I'm a little confused. There's three different styles of lining: red eagle, kevlar, and carbon fiber. Which is best, or what characteristics does each have? And I'm assuming rigid is better then a flex style? Also assuming wider is better...there's a 2" and a 2 3/16" rigid. There's also a 2 1/8" flex available.
02-15-2008, 10:31 PM
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The 727 in our Crew cab has a Kevlar band and other mods. It's not a built torque monster diesel but it has lived a long life of abuse behind a 500" big block with 38" rubber. So far even when towing loads it should never tow, the transmission remains the one part I have never hurt. It has a hughes valve body and some other fancy internals, I would like to quote ya exact specs but I can't find the receipt folder I kept all that in (we just moved) But I can tell ya the Kevlar band is one tough SOB.
02-16-2008, 11:38 AM
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Thanks, guys. The band I took out happens to be a rigid style (I think). At least it's solid with no slots along it. It's also 2" wide. It's a little toasty looking, but I think it ran loose for a time before I got it. I adjusted it and the shift to 2nd felt much firmer.
Still, no one knows the differences in the different materials?
Still, no one knows the differences in the different materials?
02-16-2008, 12:44 PM
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I can offer very little knowledge here...so take this with a grain of salt. I am hard on transmissions *very* I have a tendency to drive my toys like I stole em when I desire (thats why I build them probably) and in effect suffice to say I have killed a LOT of 727's over the years. So I went shopping for a fella who could build a hellish 727 and was brave enough to stand behind his work after watching a small video of me using my truck.
To what I know: When he was asking about the transmission he told me this about bands. Kevlar was the best "compromise" between full on race and a street able transmission. (grain of salt here please this is HIS opinion only) And the carbon fiber was a great race only material. The rest falling into assorted degrees of HD use. I can say he was firm in requiring me a front billet drum and HD planetary......he was absolute I buy red eagle clutches and keilene steels (spelling here) he refused to build it unless I ran a converter he approved (ended up with a Coan) and there were a few other upgrades....some upgraded ratio servo lever thingy and servo it's self etc..(I sounding ignorant here now huh?) Also he explained band selection had to do with clutch drum size and material..apparently the billet required the kelvar from my understanding.
Tran go makes a shift kit that allows proper shift timing and 2-3 up shift and he was VERY firm on that as well...although latter on I did purchase a valve body from Hughes he liked in the end. Bottom line he no longer builds transmissions he retired.....but that said I have flat out abused the one in my truck..never a whimper. I wish I could be of more help...as I too am curious what the selection process is...if you do learn please share as I am sure one day I will build another 727 for some other project.
To what I know: When he was asking about the transmission he told me this about bands. Kevlar was the best "compromise" between full on race and a street able transmission. (grain of salt here please this is HIS opinion only) And the carbon fiber was a great race only material. The rest falling into assorted degrees of HD use. I can say he was firm in requiring me a front billet drum and HD planetary......he was absolute I buy red eagle clutches and keilene steels (spelling here) he refused to build it unless I ran a converter he approved (ended up with a Coan) and there were a few other upgrades....some upgraded ratio servo lever thingy and servo it's self etc..(I sounding ignorant here now huh?) Also he explained band selection had to do with clutch drum size and material..apparently the billet required the kelvar from my understanding.
Tran go makes a shift kit that allows proper shift timing and 2-3 up shift and he was VERY firm on that as well...although latter on I did purchase a valve body from Hughes he liked in the end. Bottom line he no longer builds transmissions he retired.....but that said I have flat out abused the one in my truck..never a whimper. I wish I could be of more help...as I too am curious what the selection process is...if you do learn please share as I am sure one day I will build another 727 for some other project.
02-16-2008, 12:49 PM
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Thanks munk, that's helpful. I already have the transgo shift kit. I like it well enough. I'm not *hard* on my transmission as you may define it. I do tow a 5th wheel with a small trailer behind that over the passes in colorado. I tend to go up the passes as fast as I'm able without overheating. So I want holding ability in the band. I'm not producing enough horsepower, at least i don't think I am, to worry about the planetary. I'll make some calls and try to find out more about the band materials.
02-16-2008, 12:58 PM
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You mentioned towing in da mountains.. I had him modify/purchase parts to increase application pressure on the high gear side that he said were almost a 50% improvement. I sorry I can't tell you what they were but if you researched maybe someone can...sounds like a upgrade that would work well for Colorado's hills with a load.
I always liked that Monarch pass when towing my enclosed trailer at about 12K lbs. Always an interesting climb.
I always liked that Monarch pass when towing my enclosed trailer at about 12K lbs. Always an interesting climb.
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02-16-2008, 06:18 PM
#8
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What I've lernt ~
Slotted bands vs solid bands.
- The slotted band can better conform to the entire surface of the drum, each section effectively finding it's own set.
- The solid band offers more surface area thus can effectively hold more power.
- The slotted band sheds heat much faster than the solid as it can get more cooling trans fluid in there when relaxed.
- 2" vs 2 1/8" bands. The bottom line is, the more surface area that can effectively make contact, the more holding capacity. If you can make it fit (and it should) and need to replace it anyway, go for the wider.
Alto Rad, Kevlar, etc . . .
- The Alto Red is a friction makers Brand/Model. Like anything else, it's marketed as compared to an older standard material and is quite often superior in one aspect or another.
- Kevlar. Like everything else made of Kevlar, it's tough as the dickens. And that's neat, but it comes with a cost.
If you know your brake pad materials, you also know some of the more aggressive pads can eat the rotors a lot faster than the standard pads. Same thing with Kevlar. It's not dramatic with shavings in the pan, but that's the gist of it. Still good stuff.
- Carbon/Fiber. New space-age strong, and very lightweight. Perhaps the standard material of the upcoming equipment once all the application capabilities are set. We'll see.
Understand that all the friction material makers, Alto Red, Raybestos Blue, etc. They all want your business and constantly do research looking the material that can run hot as fire, offer plenty of non-destructive grab while saturated in oil, be plenty thin enough to shed heat while thick enough to last a while, etc, etc, etc. Slide into gear, without spilling the peas.
Tough, long lasting abrasive material molded and bound together with some kind of high temperature glue that as a system can do it all and be profitable.
Hmmm . .. .
Slotted bands vs solid bands.
- The slotted band can better conform to the entire surface of the drum, each section effectively finding it's own set.
- The solid band offers more surface area thus can effectively hold more power.
- The slotted band sheds heat much faster than the solid as it can get more cooling trans fluid in there when relaxed.
- 2" vs 2 1/8" bands. The bottom line is, the more surface area that can effectively make contact, the more holding capacity. If you can make it fit (and it should) and need to replace it anyway, go for the wider.
Alto Rad, Kevlar, etc . . .
- The Alto Red is a friction makers Brand/Model. Like anything else, it's marketed as compared to an older standard material and is quite often superior in one aspect or another.
- Kevlar. Like everything else made of Kevlar, it's tough as the dickens. And that's neat, but it comes with a cost.
If you know your brake pad materials, you also know some of the more aggressive pads can eat the rotors a lot faster than the standard pads. Same thing with Kevlar. It's not dramatic with shavings in the pan, but that's the gist of it. Still good stuff.
- Carbon/Fiber. New space-age strong, and very lightweight. Perhaps the standard material of the upcoming equipment once all the application capabilities are set. We'll see.
Understand that all the friction material makers, Alto Red, Raybestos Blue, etc. They all want your business and constantly do research looking the material that can run hot as fire, offer plenty of non-destructive grab while saturated in oil, be plenty thin enough to shed heat while thick enough to last a while, etc, etc, etc. Slide into gear, without spilling the peas.
Tough, long lasting abrasive material molded and bound together with some kind of high temperature glue that as a system can do it all and be profitable.
Hmmm . .. .
02-16-2008, 10:29 PM
#9
Registered User
Thread Starter
You mentioned towing in da mountains.. I had him modify/purchase parts to increase application pressure on the high gear side that he said were almost a 50% improvement. I sorry I can't tell you what they were but if you researched maybe someone can...sounds like a upgrade that would work well for Colorado's hills with a load.
I always liked that Monarch pass when towing my enclosed trailer at about 12K lbs. Always an interesting climb.
I always liked that Monarch pass when towing my enclosed trailer at about 12K lbs. Always an interesting climb.
02-16-2008, 10:39 PM
#10
Registered User
Thread Starter
What I've lernt ~
Slotted bands vs solid bands.
- The slotted band can better conform to the entire surface of the drum, each section effectively finding it's own set.
- The solid band offers more surface area thus can effectively hold more power.
- The slotted band sheds heat much faster than the solid as it can get more cooling trans fluid in there when relaxed.
- 2" vs 2 1/8" bands. The bottom line is, the more surface area that can effectively make contact, the more holding capacity. If you can make it fit (and it should) and need to replace it anyway, go for the wider.
Alto Rad, Kevlar, etc . . .
- The Alto Red is a friction makers Brand/Model. Like anything else, it's marketed as compared to an older standard material and is quite often superior in one aspect or another.
- Kevlar. Like everything else made of Kevlar, it's tough as the dickens. And that's neat, but it comes with a cost.
If you know your brake pad materials, you also know some of the more aggressive pads can eat the rotors a lot faster than the standard pads. Same thing with Kevlar. It's not dramatic with shavings in the pan, but that's the gist of it. Still good stuff.
- Carbon/Fiber. New space-age strong, and very lightweight. Perhaps the standard material of the upcoming equipment once all the application capabilities are set. We'll see.
Understand that all the friction material makers, Alto Red, Raybestos Blue, etc. They all want your business and constantly do research looking the material that can run hot as fire, offer plenty of non-destructive grab while saturated in oil, be plenty thin enough to shed heat while thick enough to last a while, etc, etc, etc. Slide into gear, without spilling the peas.
Tough, long lasting abrasive material molded and bound together with some kind of high temperature glue that as a system can do it all and be profitable.
Hmmm . .. .
Slotted bands vs solid bands.
- The slotted band can better conform to the entire surface of the drum, each section effectively finding it's own set.
- The solid band offers more surface area thus can effectively hold more power.
- The slotted band sheds heat much faster than the solid as it can get more cooling trans fluid in there when relaxed.
- 2" vs 2 1/8" bands. The bottom line is, the more surface area that can effectively make contact, the more holding capacity. If you can make it fit (and it should) and need to replace it anyway, go for the wider.
Alto Rad, Kevlar, etc . . .
- The Alto Red is a friction makers Brand/Model. Like anything else, it's marketed as compared to an older standard material and is quite often superior in one aspect or another.
- Kevlar. Like everything else made of Kevlar, it's tough as the dickens. And that's neat, but it comes with a cost.
If you know your brake pad materials, you also know some of the more aggressive pads can eat the rotors a lot faster than the standard pads. Same thing with Kevlar. It's not dramatic with shavings in the pan, but that's the gist of it. Still good stuff.
- Carbon/Fiber. New space-age strong, and very lightweight. Perhaps the standard material of the upcoming equipment once all the application capabilities are set. We'll see.
Understand that all the friction material makers, Alto Red, Raybestos Blue, etc. They all want your business and constantly do research looking the material that can run hot as fire, offer plenty of non-destructive grab while saturated in oil, be plenty thin enough to shed heat while thick enough to last a while, etc, etc, etc. Slide into gear, without spilling the peas.
Tough, long lasting abrasive material molded and bound together with some kind of high temperature glue that as a system can do it all and be profitable.
Hmmm . .. .
Thanks, David. As with everything else, there is no obvious right answer. I guess what I'm asking is will I be dissappointed with the more aggressive bands. I thought I wanted a Carbon Fiber solid 2" band. There's also a Carbon 2 1/8" slotted band available. I'm guessing for my application it won't matter a ton. Just thinking about the options. I gently tow through the mountains. Although I do put the hammer down at times. I don't do pulls. And I don't drag. I am planning a few more mods in the future: turbo, injectors, and exhaust. But I'm for sure not going to be going over 300hp. The hammer-down times are usually in 3rd or O/D, so I'm concentrating my improvements in that area.
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