1972RedNeck

I have heard this. Does it run at the same pressures as R12? How do you put it in? What oil do you run?

Yes I know propane is flammable.

maybe368

Ammonia is a great refrigerant, also it is what was and is used in deep freeze areas. We had a cold storage place in our area that had more that 2 tons of ammonia in the system...Mark

gorms

Propane and Ammonia both work as refridgerants, I would never consider either in my vehicle. If for whatever reason the evap coil leaked into the cab, there is an immediate hazard with both chemicals. Propane is flammable and ammonia is suffocating. I know R12 and R134a aren't to be inhaled, but I don't think there is as bad of an immediate threat with them.

I was working in a freezer warehouse in construction, all the refer. equipment was up and running and one of the used evaperators they bought (about 25' long each) burst open while cooling down. The ammonia was not good, thankfully I was pretty close to the exit and knew to get out before I smelled ammonia. A few had to go to the hospital.

maybe368

I agree completely, I did not say it very well, but what I meant was that there are many great refrigerants, but that does not mean that they should be put in a vehicle with people in it. In that same facility I mentioned, they had a water pipe leak in their super cold area, like 40 degrees F. below zero, we could only work in there for 5 or 6 minutes before we had to change personnel. It was fun seeing the formation of an ice fall. They also had a single dump valve that dumped the entire charge of ammonia into the sewer system, in case of emergency. Obviously, the facility was built before environmental regs and was grandfathered in...Mark

j_martin

Think about it. A ton of ammonia in a sewer system wouldn't make much difference, would it?

maybe368

I think that we are near a tipping point with the environment and we need to be careful with every drop of unnatural material. We in AZ are very close to be drinking treated sewer water and that everything we put in is going to have to be removed. Water is scarce around here. Right now we are watering golf courses with potable water and, at the same time, we are considering drinking treated water. We in AZ, and most of the southwest, are in a 20 year drought. All the lakes are at 50% or less capacity. Lake mead and lake powell are at record lows. They say it will take 7 years of above average rainfall to get out of it. So, yes I thank that a couple of tons of ammonia in the sewer does make a difference. I also think that people that live in areas that get lots of rain have a hard time imagining how dry it is here. We in Phoenix get 7 inches a year, on average and we haven't even gotten that more than 2 or three years in the past twenty. My opinion of course. Here is a Yale study of the Megadrought and its affect on the forrests...Mark

taterfarm

Water is so scarce that the guy cant even spare a gallon to mix in his antifreeze

bannerd

There is nothing you can do at this point. The world will eventually destroy itself.. it does this everyday. We might help accelerate it, but we're only adding about .1% to how much destruction the world can do. One small volcano makes enough pollution equivalent to/if every car on earth was running at 7krpm.

Although the world to us seems small.. it's not. There are still places man has not even discovered on this earth. I'm more interested in what made this all possible. What about the other planet we can see now that has two suns.. is their technology superior than ours.. maybe they're watching what we do.. it's anecdotal but some things just make no sense.

A professor once told me: (If you're worried about the planet, stop farting and breathing. You're doing more damage than you know.)

maybe368

By that logic we might as well throw our trash in the street. I, for one, cannot live like that and I really don't want to be drinking ammonia....Mark

maybe368

You're a funny guy, that's why I kill you last. (who said that and what movie?). Yeah we can have a lot of fun with THAT subject. Talk about me versus the world, although I have a couple of supporters. I think the administrators can't take another "discussion" on that subject. Besides, my wounds have just recently healed. ...Mark

gyman98

That's funny, we'll work 10-12hr days in -40 weather. With the wind chill factor the coldest day I've worked is -72c. I would imagine we have much better clothing for it though. I would take a -40f or c day over +40c anyday

maybe368

Yup, that is your advantage. Mine is I climb a 1200 foot mountain (total relief) over 1.2 miles everyday in the afternoon, all summer long. During our ultra heat wave in June, I took my Kestral 4000 weather station with me and it showed 116.7 degrees F., 47 degrees C.. That is everyday that I am in town all summer long. It's all in what you are used to. So you would kill me in the cold and me, you in the heat. I am 58 years old and consistently beat 20 somethings up the mountain. Yeah, it is very embarrassing when they pass me near the bottom and I pass them back near the top. Us old guys know how to pace ourselves...Mark

j_martin

You missed the point. Ammonia is not "unnatural", which you would understand if you've ever been near an open diaper pail.

MARF75

Schwarzenegger in Commando...

maybe368

No, I got your point. I don't know the concentration of the ammonia in what is used as a refrigerant, but I can attest to what happens when those big tanks that are used for fertilizer in the fields leak. I have personal experience with three dead kids from one leaking and an entire neighborhood evacuated. Natural was a bad word to use, as arsenic is natural as well as many other toxic things. Better to have said, it doesn't belong in the water, food supply or anywhere else that humans come in contact with it, especially in high concentrations. Hydrogen peroxide in concentration below 30% is great for cleaning wounds, in concentrations above 90%, it explodes if you look at it wrong, ask me how I know. I was first on scene and command of an incident involving 3500 pounds of methyl ethyl ketone peroxide(mekp) that was burning in a trailer (cargo type). At the time, sometime in the 80s, it was the ONLY incident involving that chemical and fire that did not kill any firefighters. I saved my crew by evacuating the scene and made no attempt to put it out, as it is also a powerful oxidizer. To see what happens, go put water on burning magnesium...Mark