A question for those running a LOT of IP timing advance.
03-31-2009, 08:34 AM
#46
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That's what i'm getting at. In the above thread you stated case pressure @ 100/200 psi. This being said and I understand alot of variables why can't you open it up but add the lost pressure and a larger volume to compensate for the case pressure? Hope you see what i'm saying "very unclear lol". I've heard the same thing as you about the return. And understanding 2n2 don't always make 4. But just a thought about compensating the loss with a gain. I have a rebuildable pump that I want to experiment with so it wouldn't be much of a loss if things went wrong. But I like to size up the pitfalls before I jump in. I'm new to the Dodge Cummins 5.9/VEpumps but have been working on diesels since I was "longggg time ago". I ain't skeered but I proceed with caution" any pitfalls, advice, ect. I appreciate very much. Thanks apwatson50 for your input and feel free to give more.
04-01-2009, 08:03 AM
#47
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You can do what you want, but there are other people with a lot more knowledge then me, with a lot more R&D in these pumps that say not to mess with it. So I don't recommend it.
Aaron
Aaron
04-01-2009, 08:43 PM
#48
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If you want to cool the pump better just install bigger injectors. If you dont want big injectors then you dont need the 14mm h/r. Mine has worked fine with no issues. It supplies a heck of a lot of fuel and powers my heap very well. I would like to play with some different timing options but dont see the point in playing with the return. Open up the inlet to the VE, feed a large volume of cool fuel into the pump, use some big injectors, and you should have no pump problems. If you really want to be redundant add a cheap trans cooler and run your fuel through it after the lift pump to cool it down a little more.
04-01-2009, 09:35 PM
#49
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Appreciate it Fergavs. All options are considered. Injectors are a good point also. Do you run your truck on the street alot or is yours a semi play truck only? The reason i've been inquiring about cooling the pump is what I've heard about it seizing up ect. from too much heat. I have managed to aquire quite a few spare parts so the common parts are not a real big issue. I going to try to get my head ported hopefully next week. I need to order my valve springs & head bolt studs. If I have time next week I also want to go visit the guys at hamilton cams. So if you think of any good advise, pitfalls, traps ect. please let me know. Thanks again.
06-28-2009, 04:11 PM
#50
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did alittle with the spacer idea, foound that the non intercooled pump has a longer by 3mm plunger spring than the i/c pump and has a thinker spacer, since the engine in my truck is an i/c engine i put the non i/d spring in with my spacer but i dont think it has enough testion yet since my timeing changed at idle for now i bumped the timeing a about an 1/8 from stock and it runs pretty well, need to test more.
one thing i noticed is that with the timeing lower i can run less afc spring tenstion and still not smoke
one thing i noticed is that with the timeing lower i can run less afc spring tenstion and still not smoke
06-28-2009, 04:58 PM
#51
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Has anybody noticed losing bottom end power with advancing timing??
I keep hearing this, people warning people, and every truck we've done it to (non i/c trucks) they pick up bottom end and blow the tires off from every stop sign if you floor it.
Like on a 92 5spd with the 21cm houisng. advancing the timing seems like it would help spool because it has on all our other trucks but do I/c trucks respond differently??
It may be because non i/c trucks have the bigger injectors and maybe they like timing??
I keep hearing this, people warning people, and every truck we've done it to (non i/c trucks) they pick up bottom end and blow the tires off from every stop sign if you floor it.
Like on a 92 5spd with the 21cm houisng. advancing the timing seems like it would help spool because it has on all our other trucks but do I/c trucks respond differently??
It may be because non i/c trucks have the bigger injectors and maybe they like timing??
06-29-2009, 12:32 AM
#53
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Same here exactly. Just brought it back down to a 1/8 and put a unported 12cm housing on, WAY more bottom end. Faster spool, less smoke. Less up top tho, like above whatever the stock gov spring would kick in at.
06-29-2009, 12:40 AM
#54
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So, . .. . I understand it's common for our mess to start sounding like a Chebby diesel's clatter with a bit much IP timing advance.
So, . . . . . how loud is too much Chebby clatter?
I often see reference to those who've shoved the pump to the head.
I've run out of IP mounting bolt slot and can't advance the timing anymore with the current cog indexing. As such, I've got about 3/16" till the pump touches the head.
With a cold (overnight) start, and the KSB doing it's thing, the heap rattles pretty good with a light throttle and less than 10psig boost. Once up to full normal operating temp, the clatter is gone. (I DON'T run more than 10psig boost when below the start of the normal operating temperature range).
Drifting more . . ...
When I ran the PDR 190 injectors, with 2.10mm plunger lift, thing's sounded kinda funny. Backing it up to a flat 2.00mm had it much better.
With the larger DDP4s, I figure more injection advance is in order (if it don't work, back it up). With pushing it to it's max available static advance Wed. night, Thursday I ran an eighth mile in 8.87 @ 75.48 (60' 1.86), 8.87 @ 75.87 (60' 1.89), and 8.81 @ 75.86 (60' 1.85) (this also includes the KSB advance FWIW).
I didn't actually measure the current timing with the gauge (estimated at 2.4mm or so lift). I just marked where it was on screw-up . . . . Excuse me, "Start-Up" of this round of tuning.
So when does the SOP gauge read ~ That's About Enough! . .. ?
Barring rain and a bad bald man's comb-over wind, I'm running for fun at The Rock tomorrow.
So, . . . . . how loud is too much Chebby clatter?
I often see reference to those who've shoved the pump to the head.
I've run out of IP mounting bolt slot and can't advance the timing anymore with the current cog indexing. As such, I've got about 3/16" till the pump touches the head.
With a cold (overnight) start, and the KSB doing it's thing, the heap rattles pretty good with a light throttle and less than 10psig boost. Once up to full normal operating temp, the clatter is gone. (I DON'T run more than 10psig boost when below the start of the normal operating temperature range).
Drifting more . . ...
When I ran the PDR 190 injectors, with 2.10mm plunger lift, thing's sounded kinda funny. Backing it up to a flat 2.00mm had it much better.
With the larger DDP4s, I figure more injection advance is in order (if it don't work, back it up). With pushing it to it's max available static advance Wed. night, Thursday I ran an eighth mile in 8.87 @ 75.48 (60' 1.86), 8.87 @ 75.87 (60' 1.89), and 8.81 @ 75.86 (60' 1.85) (this also includes the KSB advance FWIW).
I didn't actually measure the current timing with the gauge (estimated at 2.4mm or so lift). I just marked where it was on screw-up . . . . Excuse me, "Start-Up" of this round of tuning.
So when does the SOP gauge read ~ That's About Enough! . .. ?
Barring rain and a bad bald man's comb-over wind, I'm running for fun at The Rock tomorrow.
As of this moment, my IP timing is at the stock/OEM marks, . . . .. plus two IP gear teeth advance.
I'm still tuning things, see the next sentence. 
Then I was running the PDR 190 injectors. Today, I'm running the Schied 6x16 EDMs.
When I originaly posted, I ran the eighth in 8.81 @ 75.86. The other night I ran it at 8.48 @ 78.x mph.
I think I'm gonna blow something up.
06-29-2009, 12:52 AM
#56
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Thomas,
Putting in that thing you and I discussed the other night ought to help clean things up and should knock off a little of my ET. 
Putting in that thing you and I discussed the other night ought to help clean things up and should knock off a little of my ET.
06-29-2009, 12:59 AM
#57
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07-02-2009, 12:51 PM
#58
07-02-2009, 03:26 PM
#59
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Two teeth wow! I got the bucking under light throttle at one tooth plus pushed to the head, albeit I was just running stock non ic'd injectors. I backed it up to about 1/8th + 1 tooth.
I didn't find I lost any bottom end till I jumped the tooth, on the non ic sticks.
I didn't find I lost any bottom end till I jumped the tooth, on the non ic sticks.
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