bgilbert

For those that have advanced their injection pump gear a tooth. Where did you end up with your injection pump set at, (full advance, stock timing mark, retarded, etc)? I wonder how much timing almost full advance in the pump slots along with the pump gear advanced one tooth is? 30*? I think I'm gonna try to this to get some more timing for dyno/HP purposes.

Right now I'm almost full advance, there is some room in the slots (very little) even with the pump top almost touching the cylinder head. But last time I tried to advance it, even with a ratchet strap on the pump top, I couldn't get it to move. Didn't feel like bending the injection lines any to get it to move that additional 1/16".

G1625S

I'm running the stock marks with the gear advanced a tooth and it feels like a little more than the typical 1/8'' bump. That timing gear is so big that one tooth does not translate to a whole lot of actual pump shaft movement--like I said, maybe a bit more than the typical 1/8'' bump. The nice thing about the gear jump is it's a lot easier to work around the pump since it doesn't have to be shoved under the head to produce the desired results, making pump adjustments physically easier.

bgilbert

Oh I just realized, I have to loosen the pump in it's slots to do this pump gear advance right? Or is each tooth small enough where I can still guide the gear back onto the pump shaft/key after jumping a tooth?

Also which direction do I move the gear to advance?

G1625S

Well, if you go to the trouble to take the timing cover off, you can just cover some channel locks with electrical tape and gently turn the pump by the shaft. I've done it that way 3 or 4 times now with no ill effects. The pump gear should be turned CLOCKWISE. I did it COUNTERCLOCKWISE the first time and ended up with enough white smoke to block my entire zipcode from GOOGLE-EARTH Here's a pic of the WRONG WAY (counter-clockwise)

bgilbert

Thanks Greg. I talked to a p-pump buddy of mine and he said after I pop the pump gear off to use the crank to rotate the engine to the desired camshaft tooth position then put the pump gear back on. We counted the number of teeth on his old VE pump gear and with some math figured the timing advance to be like 5* if I remember right..?

bgilbert

Ok, is the consensus you have to turn the pump gear CLOCKWISE? A p-pump puller buddy of mine that messes with timing on his truck alot said the opposite. He always pulls the pump gear, rotates the engine counterclockwise, (to the passenger side) then puts the pump gear back on. Doing this, the crank turns counter, cam turns clockwise, pump gear turns counter.............. this is what I did. What does retarded timing sound like? I jumped the gear, bolted it down and then tried to start it with the timing cover removed. Just to see if it would start and if I liked how it sounded. Started instantly, throttle response seemed normal, maybe a little bit of idle haze, and couldn't really tell if the metallic/high pitch noise I was hearing was from the timing being WAY high or just the fact that the front cover was off and I was hearing all the metal to metal sounds of the gears....

BTW, at TDC, my pump gear reads D - empty space - E - C. I have it now on the empty space, not C as I've read others have it after this procedure.??

I'll try to get some pics of the front crank seal/wear sleeve I've installed and how I fabbed up my core support to accept a 1st gen intercooler since everything is off the front of the truck, I'm gonna swap intercoolers between trucks since I have an almost leak free IC in the auto truck.

G1625S

The pump gear has to turn clockwise as you're looking at it from the front bumper. In my picture, you can see that the pump gear was turned one tooth counter-clockwise in reference to the cam gear and that is most definitely the WRONG way. I can't remember how the letters lined up...I was not on TDC when I did mine.

Not sure about the p-pump guy...I had to rationalize it this way: When we push the pump top towards the head, what is the pump gear/shaft doing? Not moving, obviously, but relative to the pump body, it (the shaft/gear) is moving clockwise. If it ever is not winter here, I'll pull my cover and find TDC and snap some pics of where things line up.

wannadiesel

How Greg 'splained it is how I understand it, too.

Hey Bill - Just out of curiosity, how much oil did the motor dump on the floor when you ran it with the timing cover off?

bgilbert

Not much. I ran it for less than a minute. I rechecked oil level today and I'm down one quart. After about a minute though the gears start flinging oil on everything.

Greg, I'm starting to visualize it. I can see how moving the gear back (counterclockwise) is taking back advance I gained by having the pump against the head. I'm sure once I bump the gear clockwise I'll understand completly with all the banging and other noises associated with mucho timing. At this moment the pump top is against the head. KTA also confirms what you two say, CLOCKWISE.

G1625S

Cool, I'm glad I'm not the only one to agree with me (for a change) Nice thing about the gear bump is that you can run pretty advanced without having the pump to the head, making it easier to work on things. IF a tooth is roughly 5*, bumping two teeth and retarding the pump all the way would leave lots of room to work on things

wannadiesel

Did you get video? I would've loved to see that.

dpuckett

To find degrees per tooth, take 360, divide by the number of teeth, and you have your answer. Example- 30 tooth gear makes 12deg per tooth. (360/ 30=12).

DP

bgilbert

That's what we did and it was like 5* IIRC.

Well, it wasn't my p-pump bud that was wrong, it was me!! I was just not thinking correctly. At first I rotated the engine back too far, then back around one tooth too far (retarded). Then I just got confused. I guess even the 1st gen God's (as one of our members called me) have to come back down to Earth every now and then. Got it on letter C now, advanced clockwise one tooth. Pump top is still 95% towards the cylinder head. Fired it up, again no turbo (naturally aspirated) no water, no front cover and it sounded good. I actually thought about bumping the pump gear one more tooth, then just retarding the pump all the way. But I figured that might be too much... for now.

Dave, I never even thought about filming it. That would be a good one for youtube. Too late now, got the timing cover back on. Just gotta rob the intercooler off my 91.5 and swap em over then I'll be in busines.

JDGnut

Just looking from the outside in...
Counter clock wise on the engine would do the same as clock on the pump.. I don't think anyone was wrong.. just looking at it from different ends.. on a VE its easier to turn the pump.. P pump.. turn the engine...

On the degrees of Advance.. 12.. I'm guessing that would be crank speed.. I think you need to divided it by 60.. or the 12/2.. One rotation of the crank = half a turn by the pump... The more I think about it.. the more I'm confused.. haha...

G1625S

but but but....crank turns say clockwise, cam turns counter and pump turns clock. pump turns the same way as crank...yeah? argh, I'm going to bed before I get any more confused