OK, here's your chance...
#16
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You can test the acidity of your coolant with a volt meter or with test strips. I can't remember the voltages that become a problem off the top of my head.
As for the real world problems it's going to be hard to find any when noone else is running 100% antifreeze. Living in a colder climate anitfreeze mixtures becomes more important. A 70/30 mix offers the best freeze protection without heaters. Growing up it wasn't uncommon to have -40 to -50 nights that gets into the range straight coolant starts to solidify(freeze). In that area we got that kind of weather infrequently enough that most people didn't run block heaters but it happened at least once a winter and I can remember a full week that didn't crack -30 as a daytime high(worst I can remember) and I don't understand how the farther north people can even survive months of that. I've seen a SBC block crack with what was claimed to be 100% antifreeze(it had all drained by the time I saw it) the guy though he was saving the truck that sat outside all winter by filling it that way. That was my first(and only) experience that 100% antifreeze sucks. I provided two credible sources that both state a proper mixture is the best method that's not to say 100% either way won't work in some situations with drawbacks to either one. Your method happens to cause less efficient heat transfer that's a pretty big draw back to some it also has less freeze protection than proper mixtures. I personally stick closer to the 60/40 mix because it occasionally gets cold enough I need that and once you get beyond 70% freeze levels go back up.(got that off an old coolant bottle graph years ago)
If your going for a less corrosive argument again where I live that doesn't matter as the radiators and steel lines all rust/corrode from the outside in not the inside out.
What benefits are you hoping to see with 100%.
As for the real world problems it's going to be hard to find any when noone else is running 100% antifreeze. Living in a colder climate anitfreeze mixtures becomes more important. A 70/30 mix offers the best freeze protection without heaters. Growing up it wasn't uncommon to have -40 to -50 nights that gets into the range straight coolant starts to solidify(freeze). In that area we got that kind of weather infrequently enough that most people didn't run block heaters but it happened at least once a winter and I can remember a full week that didn't crack -30 as a daytime high(worst I can remember) and I don't understand how the farther north people can even survive months of that. I've seen a SBC block crack with what was claimed to be 100% antifreeze(it had all drained by the time I saw it) the guy though he was saving the truck that sat outside all winter by filling it that way. That was my first(and only) experience that 100% antifreeze sucks. I provided two credible sources that both state a proper mixture is the best method that's not to say 100% either way won't work in some situations with drawbacks to either one. Your method happens to cause less efficient heat transfer that's a pretty big draw back to some it also has less freeze protection than proper mixtures. I personally stick closer to the 60/40 mix because it occasionally gets cold enough I need that and once you get beyond 70% freeze levels go back up.(got that off an old coolant bottle graph years ago)
If your going for a less corrosive argument again where I live that doesn't matter as the radiators and steel lines all rust/corrode from the outside in not the inside out.
What benefits are you hoping to see with 100%.
#17
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Thanks, but that is your opinion, I have attacked nobody in this, so I will not be blamed for others attacking me. I find that most commonly accepted facts are not facts they are just commonly accepted. So if you are tired of it, I would suggest that you ignore it...Mark
While this was put out there by the quick lubes it became a commonly accepted fact by millions. I think one would be very hard pressed to find ANYONE with first hand experience of failure from running 100% antifreeze. Just not gonna happen. It is probably run at %100 by a fraction of vehicles on the road by rare inquiring minds such as yourself If they did destroy something they would probably be too embarrased to discuss it freely or just blame something else. Just human nature.
Definately a lot of cooling system examples of damage due to running heavy mineralized tap water, never changing it out or not maintaining SCAs in motors requiring that like the 7.3's though.
#18
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I asked this question once before, but I cannot seem to find it so here goes again. Has anyone had FIRSTHAND knowledge of anyone having problems with running 100% antifreeze. I don't want what your cousin told you, just FIRSTHAND. The last time I asked this, the only member that said they had was a member in Alaska that had a customer with heater problems in 60 below temps. So, have at it, let's hear about all these catastrophic failures...Mark
#20
Registered User
I heard somewhere that if you stick a 6 inch knife into your belly button up to the hilt, it could cause serious harm.
It's just hearsay, though. Maybe you should try it to be sure.
Seriously, I have been injured by a high temp boil-off of glycol. It was a diluted solution that remained overheated till the water boiled off and the glycol burned.
I was injured 8 hours later when I vented the boiler involved. The gasses did me serious harm, both respiratory and nervous system.
Fairly involved, full suit hazmat abatement followed.
Pure antifreeze would do the same thing without having to boil off the water first.
The boiler, by the way, is still in service 8 years later. It wasn't hot enough to hurt the metal, just the electrical controls.
It's just hearsay, though. Maybe you should try it to be sure.
Seriously, I have been injured by a high temp boil-off of glycol. It was a diluted solution that remained overheated till the water boiled off and the glycol burned.
I was injured 8 hours later when I vented the boiler involved. The gasses did me serious harm, both respiratory and nervous system.
Fairly involved, full suit hazmat abatement followed.
Pure antifreeze would do the same thing without having to boil off the water first.
The boiler, by the way, is still in service 8 years later. It wasn't hot enough to hurt the metal, just the electrical controls.
#21
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OK guys, let's look at it this way. He's asked a question and set the parameters for those he wants to respond. I'll jump in and try to help a guy not make a mistake when working on his ride and I'll assume most of you are the same way but that doesn't seem to be what he's looking for. Let's let the folks who have actually tried it speak up. The answers might be interesting.
#22
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Just because Mark is posting his challenge to those who are interested, doesn't mean that anyone who's tired of hearing the "100% glycol theme" has to bash him. There's another option here of just ignoring his thread, and showing him the respect he deserves. If we start bashing repeat questions, then this place will go downhill fast, and I really don't want to be a part of that, or to see it happen.
Although I have no intention of switching to pure glycol, I am interested in what his test strips have to say.
Although I have no intention of switching to pure glycol, I am interested in what his test strips have to say.
#24
Administrator
This thread has already had two "edits" and warnings by our Admins.!
If you guys can't keep this thread civil I am going to lock it up!
Rick (Totallyrad) has given some great advice on how the replies should
go. Please follow what he has said.
Thank you!
If you guys can't keep this thread civil I am going to lock it up!
Rick (Totallyrad) has given some great advice on how the replies should
go. Please follow what he has said.
Thank you!
#25
Administrator
Thread Starter
I do not get mad at other people's opinions, because they are just that, opinions. I can do you one better, the antifreeze in my fairlane was put in there in the late 90s. I am about 50 miles away from you just short of the I-10 tunnel. I would welcome a test. PM me if you are serious...Mark
#27
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Thread Starter
#28
Registered User
I didnt see this thread before and posted on the other one about having my radiator burst into the engine bay, based on that personal experience along with other observations and mishaps over the years I have some questions to ask and will keep them specific so that there are answers and we can make progress on this discussion to see where everyone is coming from.
1. will 100% antifreeze burn if it is above its flash point temperature (230*ish)and exposed to an ignition source or temperature high enough for auto ignition(750*ish)?
2. is antifreeze poisonous to inhale as a mist in the air?
3. is antifreeze a contaminant to the environment?
4. will distilled water cause corrosion in a cooling system?
5. What specific brand if any do you use as they all seem to have various ingredients?
6. How cold a temperature have you had prolonged exposure too(I am aware that you are now allowed to travel outside the sate of Arizona and don't care what location you where in just the temperature you have experienced a cold start it)
7. is your main reason for using 100% antifreeze because of the corrosive effects of water?
8. do you do your own maintenance or do other people have access to your vehicle?
I ask questions to learn and would like to know what your views are on these specific points. There is not a lot of personal experience with 100% so maybe it would be better to discuss what would happen if we had 100%antifreeze for experiences that we have when running the believed standard percentages.
These specific questions relate to me personally seeing coolant being sprayed into hot engine components, being in vehicles with broken heater cores that fog up the windows, knowing someones dog die from ingesting coolant from vehicles dripping into puddles, watching numerous vehicles drip coolant through leaks and spills, and seeing components fail and overheat with violent plumes of steam. In these events it seems as though 100% coolant would raise the risk of personal and environmental hazards. It also seems that running this component in a lesser concentration would reduce these hazards, reduce cost and increase performance(even if performance or cost isnt a concern).
It seems as though distilled water could be used without the risk of corrosion, and that it would be a great way to reduce the concentration and risk of the poisonous fluid. It also seems as though there may already be some type of water in so called full strength antifreeze as well, thats why I asked the brand. My bottle of travelers full strength has water on the list of ingredients.
I think these are all good background questions and that we can apply them to life situations to determine a list of pros and cons of what percentage of antifreeze we run.
1. will 100% antifreeze burn if it is above its flash point temperature (230*ish)and exposed to an ignition source or temperature high enough for auto ignition(750*ish)?
2. is antifreeze poisonous to inhale as a mist in the air?
3. is antifreeze a contaminant to the environment?
4. will distilled water cause corrosion in a cooling system?
5. What specific brand if any do you use as they all seem to have various ingredients?
6. How cold a temperature have you had prolonged exposure too(I am aware that you are now allowed to travel outside the sate of Arizona and don't care what location you where in just the temperature you have experienced a cold start it)
7. is your main reason for using 100% antifreeze because of the corrosive effects of water?
8. do you do your own maintenance or do other people have access to your vehicle?
I ask questions to learn and would like to know what your views are on these specific points. There is not a lot of personal experience with 100% so maybe it would be better to discuss what would happen if we had 100%antifreeze for experiences that we have when running the believed standard percentages.
These specific questions relate to me personally seeing coolant being sprayed into hot engine components, being in vehicles with broken heater cores that fog up the windows, knowing someones dog die from ingesting coolant from vehicles dripping into puddles, watching numerous vehicles drip coolant through leaks and spills, and seeing components fail and overheat with violent plumes of steam. In these events it seems as though 100% coolant would raise the risk of personal and environmental hazards. It also seems that running this component in a lesser concentration would reduce these hazards, reduce cost and increase performance(even if performance or cost isnt a concern).
It seems as though distilled water could be used without the risk of corrosion, and that it would be a great way to reduce the concentration and risk of the poisonous fluid. It also seems as though there may already be some type of water in so called full strength antifreeze as well, thats why I asked the brand. My bottle of travelers full strength has water on the list of ingredients.
I think these are all good background questions and that we can apply them to life situations to determine a list of pros and cons of what percentage of antifreeze we run.
#29
Administrator
Thread Starter
I didnt see this thread before and posted on the other one about having my radiator burst into the engine bay, based on that personal experience along with other observations and mishaps over the years I have some questions to ask and will keep them specific so that there are answers and we can make progress on this discussion to see where everyone is coming from.
1. will 100% antifreeze burn if it is above its flash point temperature (230*ish)and exposed to an ignition source or temperature high enough for auto ignition(750*ish)?
2. is antifreeze poisonous to inhale as a mist in the air?
3. is antifreeze a contaminant to the environment?
4. will distilled water cause corrosion in a cooling system?
5. What specific brand if any do you use as they all seem to have various ingredients?
6. How cold a temperature have you had prolonged exposure too(I am aware that you are now allowed to travel outside the sate of Arizona and don't care what location you where in just the temperature you have experienced a cold start it)
7. is your main reason for using 100% antifreeze because of the corrosive effects of water?
8. do you do your own maintenance or do other people have access to your vehicle?
I ask questions to learn and would like to know what your views are on these specific points. There is not a lot of personal experience with 100% so maybe it would be better to discuss what would happen if we had 100%antifreeze for experiences that we have when running the believed standard percentages.
These specific questions relate to me personally seeing coolant being sprayed into hot engine components, being in vehicles with broken heater cores that fog up the windows, knowing someones dog die from ingesting coolant from vehicles dripping into puddles, watching numerous vehicles drip coolant through leaks and spills, and seeing components fail and overheat with violent plumes of steam. In these events it seems as though 100% coolant would raise the risk of personal and environmental hazards. It also seems that running this component in a lesser concentration would reduce these hazards, reduce cost and increase performance(even if performance or cost isnt a concern).
It seems as though distilled water could be used without the risk of corrosion, and that it would be a great way to reduce the concentration and risk of the poisonous fluid. It also seems as though there may already be some type of water in so called full strength antifreeze as well, thats why I asked the brand. My bottle of travelers full strength has water on the list of ingredients.
I think these are all good background questions and that we can apply them to life situations to determine a list of pros and cons of what percentage of antifreeze we run.
1. will 100% antifreeze burn if it is above its flash point temperature (230*ish)and exposed to an ignition source or temperature high enough for auto ignition(750*ish)?
2. is antifreeze poisonous to inhale as a mist in the air?
3. is antifreeze a contaminant to the environment?
4. will distilled water cause corrosion in a cooling system?
5. What specific brand if any do you use as they all seem to have various ingredients?
6. How cold a temperature have you had prolonged exposure too(I am aware that you are now allowed to travel outside the sate of Arizona and don't care what location you where in just the temperature you have experienced a cold start it)
7. is your main reason for using 100% antifreeze because of the corrosive effects of water?
8. do you do your own maintenance or do other people have access to your vehicle?
I ask questions to learn and would like to know what your views are on these specific points. There is not a lot of personal experience with 100% so maybe it would be better to discuss what would happen if we had 100%antifreeze for experiences that we have when running the believed standard percentages.
These specific questions relate to me personally seeing coolant being sprayed into hot engine components, being in vehicles with broken heater cores that fog up the windows, knowing someones dog die from ingesting coolant from vehicles dripping into puddles, watching numerous vehicles drip coolant through leaks and spills, and seeing components fail and overheat with violent plumes of steam. In these events it seems as though 100% coolant would raise the risk of personal and environmental hazards. It also seems that running this component in a lesser concentration would reduce these hazards, reduce cost and increase performance(even if performance or cost isnt a concern).
It seems as though distilled water could be used without the risk of corrosion, and that it would be a great way to reduce the concentration and risk of the poisonous fluid. It also seems as though there may already be some type of water in so called full strength antifreeze as well, thats why I asked the brand. My bottle of travelers full strength has water on the list of ingredients.
I think these are all good background questions and that we can apply them to life situations to determine a list of pros and cons of what percentage of antifreeze we run.
1. The definition of flash point is the temp at which a material will flash burn, but then go out. The fire point is the temp at which a material will continue to burn and is usually somewhat higher, I am recovering from 3 days of food poisoning and really don't feel like googling what it is.
2. I would say it is, but I don't know for sure, see above for reason.
3. I would say it is, see above. I would say that by me not changing it for yeas, it helps the environment because I use a lot less of it that regular changers.
4. I have no idea.
5. The cheapest I can find, usually wally world super tech.
6. I owned a cabin near Pagosa Springs Colorado for many years. It had a 6 foot freeze line. I have been a ski/snowboarder for years.
7. Yes
8. All of it on all my vehicles.
There is another good reason, what do most people do when they need to top off the overflow? They add water. What happens when you add water to a 50-50 mixture? It gets diluted. ...Mark
#30
Registered User
Because you seem sincere, I will answer your questions:
1. The definition of flash point is the temp at which a material will flash burn, but then go out. The fire point is the temp at which a material will continue to burn and is usually somewhat higher, I am recovering from 3 days of food poisoning and really don't feel like googling what it is.
1. The definition of flash point is the temp at which a material will flash burn, but then go out. The fire point is the temp at which a material will continue to burn and is usually somewhat higher, I am recovering from 3 days of food poisoning and really don't feel like googling what it is.
2. I would say it is, but I don't know for sure, see above for reason.
3. I would say it is, see above. I would say that by me not changing it for yeas, it helps the environment because I use a lot less of it that regular changers.
4. I have no idea.
5. The cheapest I can find, usually wally world super tech.
6. I owned a cabin near Pagosa Springs Colorado for many years. It had a 6 foot freeze line. I have been a ski/snowboarder for years.
7. Yes
8. All of it on all my vehicles.
There is another good reason, what do most people do when they need to top off the overflow? They add water. What happens when you add water to a 50-50 mixture? It gets diluted. ...Mark
My thought is that in a well maintained vehicle in normal operating conditions with no outside failure or accident that there probably wont be any issues with 100% antifreeze. But feel that as a recommendation to others simply as a solution to corrosion and buildup that you are taking a great risk, especially without knowing what the condition or history of their vehicle is or what their personal capabilities are. I believe that ethylene glycol is a harmful fluid and that it is negligent to recommend its use without fully understanding the possible risks in the event of a system failure.
There is most likely a reason that no OEM recommends the use of 100% antifreeze and that reason most likely has nothing to do with ideal conditions of a well trained operator with common sense and experience with equipment, It is most likely due to the potential risk that could occur in an unfortunate yet entirely possible situation where personal harm would occur.
In your 25+ years of experience with 100% antifreeze how many unfortunate situations have you been in that has caused the antifreeze to leave your cooling system? Coolant has a unique taste and smell and in most all situation that I have been in where there was a loss of coolant then I taste and smell the coolant in the air, so I know it was in my lungs.
sorry didn't mean to post this much...