BearKiller

I just got back from looking at the truck.

Removed the belt, on account of the radiator being against the fan.

Pulled the dipstick = about a gallon low.

Radiator had maybe an inch of coolant, way down in there.

Hand-turned it several turns.

Took the down-pipe loose, so I could see what came out.

Touched the key and she jumped to life.

Smoked us out, big time, and blew about a half-cup of oil out the exhaust, all over the fire-wall.

Way down deep in there, somewhere, is a dull knocking noise.

I barely revved it up a little, a couple of times, and the knocking persisted.

It could be as simple as the engine hard against the fire-wall, or the oil-pan bent enough to be hitting something.

Or, it could be more serious.

I left him with an offer to think over, a low offer.

Opinions on this knocking would be appreciated.

It is a Getrag.

Thanks.

flashgordon

how long did you let it run?
is it posible that the oil ran out of the sylinders when it was upside down, into the intake and was just being used up when you reved it up! It started to such it into the eng?

Geico266

Walk. There are better used engines out there. Let someone else deal with this one.

Try not to get attached to any project. After bringing the thing to life you may loose your objectivity and want it just cause you think you can fix it.

To me after you heard the knock that would have met your minimums for rejection as the engine has been damaged. That is why you started it, to see if there was any damage from no oil pressure. Well, there is. Find another one. IMHO.

Like the previous post said; "Don't over think it."

BearKiller

Probably 90 seconds, about five minutes later, another 60 seconds.


Are you meaning that this could cause the knock??
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I made a small offer, on account of the transmission, 1-ton rear-end, steel-flat, and six wheels.

If he takes it, I consider the engine as a bonus (it may be rebuildable).

BigWaylon

and the only experience I have with this (again, non-CTD experience) was a couple weeks ago, when I let a friend drive my Jeep on the trails...and he decided it would be fun to do this:




he got it shut off pretty quick...but it stayed upside down for probably 4-6 minutes...

oil ran all out through the air filter, and collected on the underside of the hood...

we towed it back to the parking lot, and winched it onto the trailer...all of this around noon on Saturday...I let it sit on the trailer til Monday morning, pulled the plugs, and was going to just turn it over to get the oil out...but not a drop was left in the cylinders...replaced the plugs anyway, and then it fired right up...


OK...so it was a "little" smokey at first...




that's NOT the morning fog burning off...


Greg

flashgordon

BearKiller,yes i think that it is intirely posible, you said that you had to remove the fan belt......is the crank or any thing els rubbing?

Remeber, these diesels take a long time to warm up so, running it for longer then 90 sec is not a problem. sence you are whating on a responce to your offer, just what for now. after you get the truck or you bid is turned down, then further diagnose the knock.

wannadiesel

Buy it if the price is right. Worst case scenario is you have to replace the bearings and polish the crank.

As you said, it could just be the motor banging on something. Also, as flashgordon said, if it was still burning off oil it would knock.

rlyons

If the pan is bent the rods may be hitting it. I have seen this many times on gas engines. If so a rubber hammer hit hard on the sides will usually stop the knock. If oil was injesting into the engine it will cause a knock also. I wouldn't give up yet, just check it out and let it run a little longer.

BearKiller

The reason I didn't let it run any longer than I did was I didn't want that knocking noise to knock a hole in the block.

After it being upside down for about an hour, and sitting idle for a couple of months, it is amazing how quick it lit off; I barely bumped the starter and it was running.

It is a waiting game now; like checkers, it's his move, now.

Thanks. Everyone's input is always appreciated.

BlueDually

did you get that engine?

BearKiller

I am still working on a trade for the whole truck.

I hope to know something soon; but, neither of us seem to be in a big hurry.

Too much other stuff going on right now.

W900A

As far as the engine running upside down for 5 minuets, I doubt it. Maybe if it was just on it's side. At any rate, I wouldn't be overly concerned with the engine at low idle with little to no oil pressure for 5 minuets. At low RPM and no load the oil film on the bearings is sufficient for quite a while.

We scrapped some equipment at work a while back, since everything on the equipment was going to the crusher I decided to try and blow up as much stuff as possible. I drained the oil out of one engine and ran it on high idle (about 1200 RPM) for 6 hours and it didn't hurt it much.

I would bar the engine over by hand to make sure their isn't oil on top of the pistons, then fire it up and see what it sounds like. I would hazard a guess and say the engine is ok. It's still a bit of a gamble, if the price is right I would buy it without thinking twice about it.

1-5-3-6-2-4

you guy realize CTDs and every other diesel for that matter has the combustion chamber in the piston. Not the head like a gasser. if a diesel cylinder fills with oil any amount left in the combustion chamber will not drain out its physically impossible, unless theres a hole in the piston already


you don't have to physically lockup the engine to cause hydrolock damage. with just enough oil in the piston you can tweek any number of things. Theres no saying you didn't cause the knock when you fired it.


and I ran my old little Honda with no oil or water....just to see how long it would live................45 seconds till she seize up the first time. I've got it on video. it was pretty underwhelming

keithw1975

I hadn't really given it much thought but I didn't realize that an engine couldn't run inverted. Makes sense now that I think about it though. Are some engines designed to be run at steeper angles? I wonder because I have had my dozer at about 35 degree angles without ever losing pressure. I have also had my truck on some mighty steep hills without ever loosing pressure but that was just to bleed my master cylinder. :P

W900A

With the proper equipment an engine will run upside down, or at varying angles. I've worked on many buses that we had with 6V92 Detroit's and were sideways in the back of the bus with the lower head just about parallel to the ground.

We also had many inline 6 cylinder engines that were mid-mount under the floor of the bus, so the sides of the engine was parallel to the ground.

The most import thing is correct baffling of the oil pan or dry sump system to prevent a cylinder from filling with oil.

You don't say what type/size/power your crawler has, but generally 45 degrees seems to be the recommended limit. This varies widely depending on how the equipment is ordered since some offer options to run steeper inclines.