BearKiller

I am looking at a wrecked 1st Gen. Dodge/Cummins that was completely bottom-side-up, and the engine ran like this for approximately three to five minutes, before being shut-off.

The engine did not die of it's own accord, but was turned off by the key.

What possible damage could running upside-down have done to this engine??

I intend to start and run the engine, before I make an offer.

What should I look for??

The engine is why I want the truck.

Thanks.

wannadiesel

Worst case scenario is main and rod bearing damage. I assume it was idling while inverted? If so I doubt any damage was done.

If you don't hear any heavy knocking and the oil pressure is good (bring a cheapo gauge and tap into the filter mount) you can assume it's in decent shape. Since you will have the engine out it would be no big deal to replace the main and rod bearings just to be sure.

12valve@heart

My first concern would be that it had 0 oil pressure during the time that it ran upside down so the bearings may be shot. IF it was turned off with the key, it SHOULD mean that it didn't hydro-lock while running but I'd sure check for liquid in the cylinders before trying to start it now. If it was me, I'd buy it assuming that it needed all bearings and gaskets at a minimum. Once you rebuild it, you'll know what you really have.

EDIT - Wanna beat me to it but I'd also be concerned about the cam bearings if the oil pressure it low.

jrussell

Do a compression test on it. I doubt there was any oil pressure the entire time it was upside down.

Also, as 12valve stated you should make sure there is no oil in the cylinders before trying to start it (or even crank it). I rolled my Toyota and it sat on it's SIDE for about 1-2 minutes. I turned it off immediately after coming to a rest and it had TONS of oil in the cylinders. It was a good thing my buddy talked me into removing the spark plugs and checking before trying to restart it. It took an hour or so of starter fluid and cranking with no spark plugs to get the majority of the oil out. We even had a little engine fire to add some excitement to an already way overly-exciting day (Please Note: starter fluid + spark from starter = small fire). That wasn't all...the big piece of plastic sheeting I had laying over the engine (to catch the oil shooting out) quickly turned into a custom engine heat shrink wrap.

mopar2ya

anything lubricated by oil would be a concern, incluging gears, oil pump, berings etc....unless it had Prolong engine traetment in it, well then you can pour water and buckets of dirt in the engine and drive 50 miles with no oil in it...

BearKiller

Also, I don't know how long the truck lay upside-down, before being winched out of the holler and flopped back on the wheels.

It could have been all night, or just a couple of hours.

How would I determine if oil is in the cylinders??

If I check the dipstick and it reads near full, would that be a good sign?? (That sounds kind of first-grader, doesn't it.)

If I cranked the engine, with oil in the cylinders, it would bend some rods, right??

Thanks.

wannadiesel

I would roll the engine over a couple turns with the alternator nut. If it doesn't bind up it'll be OK to try to start. If it's binding, you'll have to pull the injectors and spin it over with the starter to blow all the oil out. Chances are that there is not a significant amount of oil up in the cylinders. If it ran up in there in a few minutes, it will run back out over time even with cold oil. It will probably white smoke something fierce until all the oil burns out.

A full crankcase would be a good sign.

Idling for a few minutes with no oil pressure really isn't that hard on the bearings. There will be no issues with the cylinders - I'm sure they had plenty of lubrication with 3 gallons of oil sloshing around the piston skirts. Check the turbo for play, it should be fine if the truck was just idling. If the engine sounds good and the oil pressure is OK, buy it if you are comfortable with the price.

MoparMarv

I agree with the full oil on the dip stick. They probally did not top it off after the wreck. The turning it over by hand would be a good idea.

jrussell

I have to disagree on the dipstick method. If you have no idea how much oil was in it before, knowing the level now really doesn't tell you much. It could have been overfilled before and look fine now...or it could have been low before and will be low now...either way you don't really know if there's oil in the cylinders. It doesn't take much liquid to hydro-lock a motor, especially when it's turned off and can't burn the oil fast enough. I've seen people hydro-lock motors due to oil in the cylinders just by trying to crank it over.

I know almost nothing of the internal workings on our CTD's, but when oil fills the cylinders on an upside down vehicle it generally doesn't drain itself out. It comes in while the engine is upside down (through the top-end I assume) and isn't able to drain out once the vehicle is righted. All I know is after seeing a couple of very expensive motors hydro-locked this exact way, you are ALWAYS better off to check and be safe than sorry.

G1625S

For the 1/2 hour it'll take to yank the injectors, it's probably worth it.

pred

If it was a toyo with a 22r engine, wel, they are allowed to burn 1 qt of oil in 1k miles, I dont know why, but those little engines are rubust, but usually consume some iol, mabey that is why they filled with oil, or the valve seals were tired, and the head filled with oil. I would turn by hand as wanna d described,, after all, these are oil burners, if it cranks by turning the alt. bolt, I personally would crank er up and see what happens, besides you didn't buy it yet did you?
Peter.
Who would be upset if you tried to kik er over after turning by hand first, after all, you are just checking out your possible investment.

BearKiller

Of course, from a traders point of view, if we fool around and get the thing running, before I get the thing bought, he will no longer be in doubt as to whether the engine is okay, or not; thus, with the engine sitting there running like a sewing machine, and all his doubts removed, he is not going to be so quick to bargain.

Geico266

But the internal damage may be pretty severe, and you won't know it by starting it. Under a load and it could be a different story entierly.

Make the starting it a contingency of the purchase agreement. Settle on a price before you start working on it. The price will be conditional upon you starting it and being happy with it idling.

That is a long time with no oil pressure. Good luck.

12vchevydually

Don't over think it. I say if its turns over by hand, Hook some juice and fuel too it and fire that bad boy up!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think we all forget how much the old motors can take!!!!!

rlyons

I have worked hundreds of wrecks and a lot of them diesels and no engine will run 3 to 5 minutes upside down. It may seem that long but not actually that long. The oil flowing up into the cylinders would not allow it to run, it would hydro lock before that amount of time. For sure pull the injectors before cranking it to allow any oil to escape then crank it and see if it sounds normal. It will smoke and spit and sputter for a while but I doubt it will have any damage if they had to shut it off.