My truck lost power.
10-08-2013, 03:03 PM
#31
Administrator
Thread Starter
This shop builds a lot of Powerstroke and DuraMax transmission.
At this time I cannot afford a high end converter although it is on my wish list.
I checked in this morning and the transmission was out of the truck, he said they were tearing the trans down is awhile and a driver was picking up the bad converter around 2:00 P.M.
There was metal in the pan probably from the converter but there was no friction material or metal parts from the trans itself.
How much torque could I possibly have in this engine, I have never been on a dyno.
1991 D-350
stock injectors,
Pump advanced 1/8"
#366 spring,
Fuel Screw 1/2 turn from hanging,then backed down 1 turn
H1c W/ HTT Stage-4 ~ 60mm compressor,
3" crossover,
4" DE down-pipe,
3" Banks exhaust,
4" Ram Air,
Engine is tight and starts on first revolution.
Again just wondering.
Jim
10-08-2013, 03:30 PM
#32
Registered User
I would say 550+ easily depending on a couple things. Fair bit more if that truck of yours is non-ic. I can't remember if it is or not. It's not enough to destroy a converter though, or shouldn't be anyway. I know the cash may be tight but spending the $550 on a low end goerend is cheaper than $2000 for a new transmission every year because the converter fails and sends material through the trans. Plus taking in to account down time for your rig having it worked on.
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10-08-2013, 05:13 PM
#33
Administrator
Jim, one thing to remind them, especially if they build a lot of Duramax and Powerstroke transmissions is the HUGE difference in RPMs. The Cummins starts building large torque right off idle, so the Trans needs pressure down low.........
If this torque converter is fried the same way the last one was, I would think long and hard about what Rick said in the post above.
The Cummins has killed more converters than just about anything else imaginable......
If this torque converter is fried the same way the last one was, I would think long and hard about what Rick said in the post above.
The Cummins has killed more converters than just about anything else imaginable......
10-08-2013, 07:58 PM
#34
Registered User
The difference in how it feels between a Goerend converter and a stock, or stockish one is amazing. It drives like a truck, keeping the engine in the power band all the time, even at hammer down.
With approximately the same cooling setup that you have, the only time I've seen my transmission oil temp over 150 was pulling a long mountain grade at full throttle in third under. I backed down a little before the crest because the engine was beginning to get a bit warm, not because of any concern for the transmission.
With approximately the same cooling setup that you have, the only time I've seen my transmission oil temp over 150 was pulling a long mountain grade at full throttle in third under. I backed down a little before the crest because the engine was beginning to get a bit warm, not because of any concern for the transmission.
10-10-2013, 04:54 AM
#35
Administrator
Thread Starter
I would say 550+ easily depending on a couple things. Fair bit more if that truck of yours is non-ic. I can't remember if it is or not. It's not enough to destroy a converter though, or shouldn't be anyway. I know the cash may be tight but spending the $550 on a low end goerend is cheaper than $2000 for a new transmission every year because the converter fails and sends material through the trans. Plus taking in to account down time for your rig having it worked on.
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10-10-2013, 05:19 AM
#36
Administrator
Thread Starter
I talked to him a bit on Wednesday, he was waiting to hear about the converter and he had called another expert on Torqueflites and was noticing a couple of the holes in the case that feed charge oil to the converter were not matching the holes in the valve body, he was sending him more information, he thought I might possibly have a Gas valve body in my case.
I found a list of valve body part numbers and only one listed for the diesel.
The torque converter back on 09/11/2012 also burned out and trashed everything in the case which was installed back around 2005, at this time I did not have a Trans Temp Gauge to know how hot it was getting.
I should know more today on Thursday I hope.
Jim
I found a list of valve body part numbers and only one listed for the diesel.
The torque converter back on 09/11/2012 also burned out and trashed everything in the case which was installed back around 2005, at this time I did not have a Trans Temp Gauge to know how hot it was getting.
I should know more today on Thursday I hope.
Jim
10-10-2013, 11:13 PM
#37
Registered User
The guy who rebuilds my trannys races mopars and I remember when he custom built the 727 for my custom built 440 Powerwagon (I built for towing 15K in the mountains) custom built new cooler lines for me because of some check valve in them that will get clogged up and cause the trannys to overheat. Something to look into before you torch another one.
10-21-2013, 07:05 AM
#40
Administrator
Thread Starter
Yes, there is an update,
On last Thursday after a few conversations with the expert on Torqueflites he has confirmed that the valve body is from a Gas A-727 transmission and not that of a Diesel, tracing the charge oil path from the valve body, it passes through the separator plate and then dead ends into the base of the transmission housing where the other circuits pass, somehow the gas valve body had been modified to work but was not flowing enough oil to the converter under a load, with not enough oil the converter could cavitate and superheat the ATF.
Charge oil path in the Diesel valve body takes a different path than that of Gas counterpart.
Looking at the separator plate on the left, the right hand hole on the leading edge supplies the charge oil (this is the gas valve body)
See where it meets to the blank part of the casting on the right hand side of the Diesel case.
This is just a sad picture of my transmission waiting to be put back together.
The story from the converter supplier was it was burned up, I was probably towing a trailer or something, or I have a lot of torque, the owner said no way, he is not towing anything, he is just driving and they are burning up ( this was before we were sure about the wrong valve body) so he built me a converter with a lower stall, I think he said it was about 200-300 RPM lower than the normal stall (he is going to get me the specs)
So the new converter was built and shipped, it got here late Thursday
I also had to wait for a new Diesel valve body that was being shipped here from Michigan that will be here by Monday.
Friday I talked to him and he said if everything gets here as planned then I should have my truck back by Monday afternoon.
Monday afternoon, I stop by to see how it is going and he had it back on the lift and told me there is a problem, when he went to test drive it, the transmission bound up and would not move, he found the low/ reverse servo was hanging up and applying low and reverse at the same time, found the pressure would release but the piston would stick, finally got that fixed and I went to pick it up.
I ask how much was it going to cost me and he said nothing, don't worry about it.
So I went on home, this sure feels different.
Now a couple of questions,
When I put the truck in gear, there is a bit of a rough idle and you can feel a slight surging against the transmission, disappears under slight throttle.
I bled all of the injector lines and it might have made a difference but not much.
The idle feels a little low but I did not adjust it yet, maybe up a bit.
Would the low stall on the converter drop my idle and make a surge?
I had them pop test my old injectors,
1, 3, 5 Weak
2, 4, 6 Poor atomizing
Even with this, the engine ran smooth and starts within 1 rev.
I also have a slight leak in the #5 exhaust flange gasket, where do I get these, Cummins or the Auto Parts?
We shall see how long this one last, everything is new except for the case, and a few other parts.
Thanks Jim
On last Thursday after a few conversations with the expert on Torqueflites he has confirmed that the valve body is from a Gas A-727 transmission and not that of a Diesel, tracing the charge oil path from the valve body, it passes through the separator plate and then dead ends into the base of the transmission housing where the other circuits pass, somehow the gas valve body had been modified to work but was not flowing enough oil to the converter under a load, with not enough oil the converter could cavitate and superheat the ATF.
Charge oil path in the Diesel valve body takes a different path than that of Gas counterpart.
Looking at the separator plate on the left, the right hand hole on the leading edge supplies the charge oil (this is the gas valve body)
See where it meets to the blank part of the casting on the right hand side of the Diesel case.
This is just a sad picture of my transmission waiting to be put back together.
The story from the converter supplier was it was burned up, I was probably towing a trailer or something, or I have a lot of torque, the owner said no way, he is not towing anything, he is just driving and they are burning up ( this was before we were sure about the wrong valve body) so he built me a converter with a lower stall, I think he said it was about 200-300 RPM lower than the normal stall (he is going to get me the specs)
So the new converter was built and shipped, it got here late Thursday
I also had to wait for a new Diesel valve body that was being shipped here from Michigan that will be here by Monday.
Friday I talked to him and he said if everything gets here as planned then I should have my truck back by Monday afternoon.
Monday afternoon, I stop by to see how it is going and he had it back on the lift and told me there is a problem, when he went to test drive it, the transmission bound up and would not move, he found the low/ reverse servo was hanging up and applying low and reverse at the same time, found the pressure would release but the piston would stick, finally got that fixed and I went to pick it up.
I ask how much was it going to cost me and he said nothing, don't worry about it.
So I went on home, this sure feels different.
Now a couple of questions,
When I put the truck in gear, there is a bit of a rough idle and you can feel a slight surging against the transmission, disappears under slight throttle.
I bled all of the injector lines and it might have made a difference but not much.
The idle feels a little low but I did not adjust it yet, maybe up a bit.
Would the low stall on the converter drop my idle and make a surge?
I had them pop test my old injectors,
1, 3, 5 Weak
2, 4, 6 Poor atomizing
Even with this, the engine ran smooth and starts within 1 rev.
I also have a slight leak in the #5 exhaust flange gasket, where do I get these, Cummins or the Auto Parts?
We shall see how long this one last, everything is new except for the case, and a few other parts.
Thanks Jim
10-21-2013, 07:40 AM
#41
Registered User
The idle feels a little low but I did not adjust it yet, maybe up a bit.
Would the low stall on the converter drop my idle and make a surge?
Would the low stall on the converter drop my idle and make a surge?
With idle set right, a low stall converter will roll you out to about 15 mph on the flat without touching the throttle. Can be a bit unnerving when driving on ice.
Yer tranny man is making up for missing the wrong valve body on the first go-round. The TQ man is mighty generous.
The trouble with old iron is someone else has probably messed with it before. It's good to look everything over with a jaundiced eye when you get in to it.
10-21-2013, 08:44 AM
#42
Administrator
Jim, you need to buy your trans guy a really nice Christmas gift....... He definitely did you way good!
As for the bringing the idle down, yes, a tighter converter will do that, and you should drive it for a while to see if you get used to it, The additional pull and MPG would be worth it to me.
As for the bringing the idle down, yes, a tighter converter will do that, and you should drive it for a while to see if you get used to it, The additional pull and MPG would be worth it to me.
10-22-2013, 09:21 PM
#44
Administrator
Thread Starter
Jim, you need to buy your trans guy a really nice Christmas gift....... He definitely did you way good!
As for the bringing the idle down, yes, a tighter converter will do that, and you should drive it for a while to see if you get used to it, The additional pull and MPG would be worth it to me.
As for the bringing the idle down, yes, a tighter converter will do that, and you should drive it for a while to see if you get used to it, The additional pull and MPG would be worth it to me.
Before I went to pick up my truck, we stopped off at Chili's Restaurant and I bought him a $50.00 Gift Card.
After I picked it up, I gave him the card and a big bag of Chips and Salsa to snack on; this transmission was really getting frustrating for both of us.
But..
I still think something is wrong, the transmission runs fine but if I sit at a stop for very long (maybe 2 red lights), the trans temp will start to rise, it will get to 240* at an idle in gear, and once the truck is moving again, it takes a while for the temps to get back to normal, but if I put it in neutral and hold the idle around 1500 RPM, the temps drop back to 160*-180* within a minuet or two.
We have gone over the entire cooling circuit several times, with the return disconnected from the transmission, it fills a 1 gallon bottle in about 15 seconds.
Jim
10-22-2013, 09:27 PM
#45
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I believe it was monstar built on this forum,IIRC who installed an ATS trans and was having high temp issues. His ended up getting better the more he drove it.
Could there be a "break in" period??
Could there be a "break in" period??