My truck lost power.
10-05-2013, 12:11 PM
#16
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I don't know how a torque converter could fail like that and not totally chit the bit. I'll be watching this thread with interest.
Built up with a few decent parts, the 518 is a pretty tough transmission. I just got back from a 3000 mile trip pulling a double, some of it in mountains with 2 valve body screws laying in the pan. Noticed a slight flare in shifting and a slight vibration. (cavitation in the front pump) Put it in the shop. They bolted the valve body back in, put in a fresh filter and pan gasket, put the perfectly good salvaged AmZoil fluid back in and put it back in service.
Mine has high-perf clutches, Transgo shift kit, a few hard parts that are weak in the stock tranny, and a Goerend converter. Shifts soft as a baby's behind when I'm behaving, and a neck snapper if I'm on it making smoke. It's better than a stick.
I'm betting you have something stuck in the IP.
Built up with a few decent parts, the 518 is a pretty tough transmission. I just got back from a 3000 mile trip pulling a double, some of it in mountains with 2 valve body screws laying in the pan. Noticed a slight flare in shifting and a slight vibration. (cavitation in the front pump) Put it in the shop. They bolted the valve body back in, put in a fresh filter and pan gasket, put the perfectly good salvaged AmZoil fluid back in and put it back in service.
Mine has high-perf clutches, Transgo shift kit, a few hard parts that are weak in the stock tranny, and a Goerend converter. Shifts soft as a baby's behind when I'm behaving, and a neck snapper if I'm on it making smoke. It's better than a stick.
I'm betting you have something stuck in the IP.
10-05-2013, 02:17 PM
#18
Registered User
518 is non lockup, so no clutch in it. Tell Goerend what you plan to do with the truck, you'll get the right converter.
I'm hedging my bet on the OP's problem. A slipping sprague clutch in the TQ can do that. Would also run real hot.
I'm hedging my bet on the OP's problem. A slipping sprague clutch in the TQ can do that. Would also run real hot.
10-07-2013, 03:55 PM
#19
Administrator
Thread Starter
Another update,
On Saturday I had some work that I had to finish so I took the truck since I was not far from home, I had to park into a rather narrow parking stall between a truck and a 4" pole sticking out of the ground, when I was finished I came out and found someone parked so close to me I was going to have a problem backing out, I had to do a series of moves requiring about a minuet of D/R maneuvering so I could clear the pole and the block wall behind me, Anyway, I made it out of the parking and then I noticed my Trans Temp Gauge was at 250* and climbing, the truck had just set for 3 hours previously.
I turned on the cooling fan and put it in neutral and within a few minuets it was back down to 160*
I went on home and let it cool off and took the car and went off to Fry’s to spend some money.
Sunday,
Got the truck unloaded.
Around 8:00 P.M. I took my daughter and went to drop off my truck at the Transmission Shop, my wife followed in the car, now the trans is shifting and there is only a slight amount of smoke but I can tell the converter is hanging because when I put it in gear, the truck will lurch and try to move fast but with no torque.
When I got to the Transmission Shop, I wanted to back into the parking so I would be headed into his shop, the parking was at a slight incline about that of a driveway, as soon as I went into Reverse and even before I started to move I noticed the fluid temperatures starting to rise, more accurately SHOOT UP.
I got it parked and then as soon as I took it out of Reverse the temperature started to go back down to normal.
I know all of the heat is generated inside the converter, only think I can think of is with no multiplication and being on an incline, fluid shear, torque and resistance of the weight of the truck,
But still WHY is this happening, why am I burning up torque converters?
If you remember,
On 09/11/2012 my transmission went out with a bang, literally, all of the clutches were burned blue, no friction surface, clutch drums hammered and cracked output bushing hammered through the case along with other damage, I needed a new case that could not be found so his machinist welded up the case and machined a recess for a new radial thrust bearing to take its place. Trans gets put back together and all if good, or at least I thought.
03/06/2013 I took it back to have it serviced because it was not shifting and the fluid was getting dark, he serviced it and I picked it that night and went on to a meeting with the local Sheriff's Dept, as I park I smelled hot oil and looking under the truck I see ATF leaking out of my dipstick, took it back and he says, maybe it got overfilled and everyone has already gone home.
I went home and and on the way the trans started slipping so I thought I am now probably low on ATF and I pull over to check, put it in Park start to get out of the truck and it starts to roll away.
I took it back to the shop and had my wife come and pick me up.
Next day I went to see what happened and he had it on the lift and the pan off and he said the transmission was of metal, steel and aluminum from the converter.
Again the transmission was rebuilt everything flushed and installed another converter and except for a few minor problems like the shift indicator it was working as it should.
Now this is a strange coincidence,
Between 09/11/2012 and 03/06/2013
There were only about 7,000 miles on the transmission since the first rebuild,
Between 03/06/2013 and 10/07/2013
There were only about 7,000 miles on the transmission since the second rebuild.
I think there was more damage to the case than could be seen, anyhow just a thought.
I an going to go the the shop in awhile to see what they have found out.
BTW This a well known reputable shop that builds racing transmissions.
Jim
On Saturday I had some work that I had to finish so I took the truck since I was not far from home, I had to park into a rather narrow parking stall between a truck and a 4" pole sticking out of the ground, when I was finished I came out and found someone parked so close to me I was going to have a problem backing out, I had to do a series of moves requiring about a minuet of D/R maneuvering so I could clear the pole and the block wall behind me, Anyway, I made it out of the parking and then I noticed my Trans Temp Gauge was at 250* and climbing, the truck had just set for 3 hours previously.
I turned on the cooling fan and put it in neutral and within a few minuets it was back down to 160*
I went on home and let it cool off and took the car and went off to Fry’s to spend some money.
Sunday,
Got the truck unloaded.
Around 8:00 P.M. I took my daughter and went to drop off my truck at the Transmission Shop, my wife followed in the car, now the trans is shifting and there is only a slight amount of smoke but I can tell the converter is hanging because when I put it in gear, the truck will lurch and try to move fast but with no torque.
When I got to the Transmission Shop, I wanted to back into the parking so I would be headed into his shop, the parking was at a slight incline about that of a driveway, as soon as I went into Reverse and even before I started to move I noticed the fluid temperatures starting to rise, more accurately SHOOT UP.
I got it parked and then as soon as I took it out of Reverse the temperature started to go back down to normal.
I know all of the heat is generated inside the converter, only think I can think of is with no multiplication and being on an incline, fluid shear, torque and resistance of the weight of the truck,
But still WHY is this happening, why am I burning up torque converters?
If you remember,
On 09/11/2012 my transmission went out with a bang, literally, all of the clutches were burned blue, no friction surface, clutch drums hammered and cracked output bushing hammered through the case along with other damage, I needed a new case that could not be found so his machinist welded up the case and machined a recess for a new radial thrust bearing to take its place. Trans gets put back together and all if good, or at least I thought.
03/06/2013 I took it back to have it serviced because it was not shifting and the fluid was getting dark, he serviced it and I picked it that night and went on to a meeting with the local Sheriff's Dept, as I park I smelled hot oil and looking under the truck I see ATF leaking out of my dipstick, took it back and he says, maybe it got overfilled and everyone has already gone home.
I went home and and on the way the trans started slipping so I thought I am now probably low on ATF and I pull over to check, put it in Park start to get out of the truck and it starts to roll away.
I took it back to the shop and had my wife come and pick me up.
Next day I went to see what happened and he had it on the lift and the pan off and he said the transmission was of metal, steel and aluminum from the converter.
Again the transmission was rebuilt everything flushed and installed another converter and except for a few minor problems like the shift indicator it was working as it should.
Now this is a strange coincidence,
Between 09/11/2012 and 03/06/2013
There were only about 7,000 miles on the transmission since the first rebuild,
Between 03/06/2013 and 10/07/2013
There were only about 7,000 miles on the transmission since the second rebuild.
I think there was more damage to the case than could be seen, anyhow just a thought.
I an going to go the the shop in awhile to see what they have found out.
BTW This a well known reputable shop that builds racing transmissions.
Jim
10-07-2013, 04:44 PM
#20
Administrator
Jim, could be the sprag as others have said, but I fail to see how the case has anything to do with that.
That being said, I would be scouring the countryside for another trans to have built, just to be sure.
One thing is for sure, something, either a bad run of torque converters, or your case is an issue. I don't think I would trust a third rebuild with the same parts.
Surely someone can find you a case?
That being said, I would be scouring the countryside for another trans to have built, just to be sure.
One thing is for sure, something, either a bad run of torque converters, or your case is an issue. I don't think I would trust a third rebuild with the same parts.
Surely someone can find you a case?
10-07-2013, 05:11 PM
#21
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Jim, could be the sprag as others have said, but I fail to see how the case has anything to do with that.
That being said, I would be scouring the countryside for another trans to have built, just to be sure.
One thing is for sure, something, either a bad run of torque converters, or your case is an issue. I don't think I would trust a third rebuild with the same parts.
Surely someone can find you a case?
That being said, I would be scouring the countryside for another trans to have built, just to be sure.
One thing is for sure, something, either a bad run of torque converters, or your case is an issue. I don't think I would trust a third rebuild with the same parts.
Surely someone can find you a case?
10-07-2013, 05:22 PM
#22
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Thread Starter
10-07-2013, 06:04 PM
#23
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What are 190 injectors? Are they a Bosch part for the 6BT motors? I'm not to confident in some of the aftermarket stuff. They shove in tons of fuel without much efficiency.
10-07-2013, 07:27 PM
#24
Registered User
Hey jim,
There ain't no dang luminum in a torque converter. The symptoms you describe scream slipping sprague clutch in the TQ, but skipping out of park fresh out of the shop? Come on man, that's a screwdriver adjustment.
I'd find a fresh transmission. Good used go for 300 - 500 plus shipping, or maybe you can get lucky and buy one without reverse for a song. You want to replace the reverse band anyway.
Then I'd find a fresh transmission shop.
There ain't no dang luminum in a torque converter. The symptoms you describe scream slipping sprague clutch in the TQ, but skipping out of park fresh out of the shop? Come on man, that's a screwdriver adjustment.
I'd find a fresh transmission. Good used go for 300 - 500 plus shipping, or maybe you can get lucky and buy one without reverse for a song. You want to replace the reverse band anyway.
Then I'd find a fresh transmission shop.
10-08-2013, 03:40 AM
#25
Administrator
Thread Starter
I know, I know there is only steel in the converter 
I would like to install a 518 or a 47RH but it would have to be one of my weekend projects because my truck runs almost every day.
I called him in the afternoon and he said it was next in line for the lift and the trans should be out by late tonight or tomorrow before noon, he said the ATF was burned.
He said the trans will come out, torn down and the converter shipped back and be cut open to try to determine why it had failed.
Another converter will be here by Wednesday and I should have my truck by Friday.
Still trying to imagine what is causing my truck to eat transmissions,
Am I the only one with this problem?
The external cooling system has all been replaced since the first transmission failure to include under bed cooler, heat exchanger all of the 1/2" ID TOC hoses except for the A2F cooler in the front, everything else is new.
But still curious about the 1/2: flare fitting for the return line as to its restriction, does the fluid dump into the case here or does it go somewhere internally? could a secondary drain be added?
The system has been flushed, back flushed, pressure tested using special cleaners and solvent at least 2 times, the flow has been checked and is up to specs.
That is why I was thinking about something inside the case since the ATF returns at the rear of the case, maybe something is restricting it.
Why do you think the ATF is getting so hot so quickly in reverse?
How much torque could I possibly have in this engine?
My last truck I blew out 3) 700R4's in reverse from backing out of a steep driveway till I replaced the gear ratio to a 3.73.
This is a repost from 09/2012 when the transmission self destructed.
I stopped by REMAC this morning to check on the progress of my transmission and he said everything is here except for the separator plate for the valve body that should get here this afternoon, then he can start putting it together.
Here you can see the separator plate and you can see how the check ***** were getting hammered through the plate from the high pressures.
This Trans Go Shift Kit was installed probably around 2003-4, Ill have to check my records for the exact date.
Here is the bottom side, you can see they were getting pounded through the hole, This must have been affecting the quality of my shifts.
Another almost full view.
Low clutches disk are toasted including the floaters.
See how they are burnt into a conical shape.
Here you can see how some of the plates are not so straight anymore, think I found the reason the truck moves in Park and Neutral as well as the shudder I was feeling.
The clutch drum also got hammered, including a crack on the other side, another part to be replaced.
No that is not my fingerprint..
I cannot believe just how rough the inside and outside of this casting is, I would have deburred and polished the inside if I had the time.
Also an interesting find, our oil cooler they brag about how it needs BIG 1/2" lines, not 3/8" it is too small yet if you check the 1/2" flare fitting on the side of the case, it is only a 1/4" NPT with a tiny 1/4" hole through it.
Maybe they use the 1/2" to lessen the restriction. hum..
Here is where all of the damage was done, there is usually a bronze bushing at the end of the housing that the drum rides on.
The machinist cut out the back of the case and installed a radial thrust bearing to carry all of the thrust loads.
Now I have a roller bearing to carry all of the thrust.
He said I should have my truck tomorrow, I am having cummins withdrawls, I need to go drive behind a bus so I can smell the diesel.
So what do you think?
Then I'd find a fresh transmission shop.
I would just like to find what is causing this problem, the transmission that grenaded back in 09/11/2012 had lasted about 8-9 years before it came apart and was rebuild by The Trans Shop and was recommended by Banks here in Azusa, but unfortunately Marvin went off the Afghanistan to work for the military.
Jim
I would like to install a 518 or a 47RH but it would have to be one of my weekend projects because my truck runs almost every day.
I called him in the afternoon and he said it was next in line for the lift and the trans should be out by late tonight or tomorrow before noon, he said the ATF was burned.
He said the trans will come out, torn down and the converter shipped back and be cut open to try to determine why it had failed.
Another converter will be here by Wednesday and I should have my truck by Friday.
Still trying to imagine what is causing my truck to eat transmissions,
Am I the only one with this problem?
The external cooling system has all been replaced since the first transmission failure to include under bed cooler, heat exchanger all of the 1/2" ID TOC hoses except for the A2F cooler in the front, everything else is new.
But still curious about the 1/2: flare fitting for the return line as to its restriction, does the fluid dump into the case here or does it go somewhere internally? could a secondary drain be added?
The system has been flushed, back flushed, pressure tested using special cleaners and solvent at least 2 times, the flow has been checked and is up to specs.
That is why I was thinking about something inside the case since the ATF returns at the rear of the case, maybe something is restricting it.
Why do you think the ATF is getting so hot so quickly in reverse?
How much torque could I possibly have in this engine?
My last truck I blew out 3) 700R4's in reverse from backing out of a steep driveway till I replaced the gear ratio to a 3.73.
This is a repost from 09/2012 when the transmission self destructed.
I stopped by REMAC this morning to check on the progress of my transmission and he said everything is here except for the separator plate for the valve body that should get here this afternoon, then he can start putting it together.
Here you can see the separator plate and you can see how the check ***** were getting hammered through the plate from the high pressures.
This Trans Go Shift Kit was installed probably around 2003-4, Ill have to check my records for the exact date.
Here is the bottom side, you can see they were getting pounded through the hole, This must have been affecting the quality of my shifts.
Another almost full view.
Low clutches disk are toasted including the floaters.
See how they are burnt into a conical shape.
Here you can see how some of the plates are not so straight anymore, think I found the reason the truck moves in Park and Neutral as well as the shudder I was feeling.
The clutch drum also got hammered, including a crack on the other side, another part to be replaced.
No that is not my fingerprint..
I cannot believe just how rough the inside and outside of this casting is, I would have deburred and polished the inside if I had the time.
Also an interesting find, our oil cooler they brag about how it needs BIG 1/2" lines, not 3/8" it is too small yet if you check the 1/2" flare fitting on the side of the case, it is only a 1/4" NPT with a tiny 1/4" hole through it.
Maybe they use the 1/2" to lessen the restriction. hum..
Here is where all of the damage was done, there is usually a bronze bushing at the end of the housing that the drum rides on.
The machinist cut out the back of the case and installed a radial thrust bearing to carry all of the thrust loads.
Now I have a roller bearing to carry all of the thrust.
He said I should have my truck tomorrow, I am having cummins withdrawls, I need to go drive behind a bus so I can smell the diesel.
So what do you think?
Then I'd find a fresh transmission shop.
I would just like to find what is causing this problem, the transmission that grenaded back in 09/11/2012 had lasted about 8-9 years before it came apart and was rebuild by The Trans Shop and was recommended by Banks here in Azusa, but unfortunately Marvin went off the Afghanistan to work for the military.
Jim
10-08-2013, 03:53 AM
#26
Registered User
Might I suggest Bellflower Transmission in Bellflower. Off of Artesia and Woodruff. Larry is the owner and a good guy to deal with. Bob is one hell of a transmission builder and knows his stuff. They build quite a bit of diesel transmissions to the same specs and with the same parts as ATS (for a little cheaper also) and replace ones for those who want an ATS built unit (Larry is an ATS dealer). All of which have held up great unless the owner does not know how to maintain the vehicle. Tell him Jim Cecil sent you. Larry will take care of you regardless, and find a solution to any kind of problem.
10-08-2013, 05:01 AM
#27
Administrator
Thread Starter
Jim,
Thanks, appreciate the name, I should know within the next few days what is going to happen or if he repairs it under warranty although it expired in September, I want to know what the problem is and how prevent it if is my truck.
Any ideas what he gets for a complete rebuild?
Last one cost me around $2,000.00 with all of the machine work on the case.
Thanks Jim
Thanks, appreciate the name, I should know within the next few days what is going to happen or if he repairs it under warranty although it expired in September, I want to know what the problem is and how prevent it if is my truck.
Any ideas what he gets for a complete rebuild?
Last one cost me around $2,000.00 with all of the machine work on the case.
Thanks Jim
10-08-2013, 05:44 AM
#28
Registered User
I would venture a guess of around $2,000. I recall him rebuilding the C6 in my dad's '86 F-350 as heavy duty as possible for about that price. It's been about 10 years since then though. A conversation will get you an estimate but full inspection will tell you what's needed.
10-08-2013, 06:00 AM
#29
Registered User
