NJTman

Hey guys.

Trying to think outside the box here.

I would like to reinforce my lower hinges on my truck... as we all know why. I had this idea where I could put a 1/4" thick piece of metal inside the door, on the back side of the hinge area by using a technique we use in retrofitting homes with a new beam for structural support under the house.

Since there is on real easy way to put a hunk of steel inside there, as .. how do you template it properly without a designated extra door to practice on.... so my idea was pretty simple.


In a house, when you need to get a long hunk of bearing member (LVL, Steel, or other beam) inside a house, you simply cut a hole in the end of the house enough to fit the beam through, and shove it in there, set it up, and you now have a new bearing support for the floor above. Could we do the same for the doors?

My thoughts were to find the location where the door hinge area needs reinforcement. Cut a "slot" inside the inner door skin (after removing the panel of course) , sliding a hunk of 1/4" thick steel in there until it hits the outer door skin. use a scribe / caliper with pencil to mark the outline of the outer door panel on the end of your steel hunk, remove it, and shape it to the outer door panel profile. Put it back in (after cleaning the areas to be welded of paint / crud) and stick it back in, welding it in place. Cut off the excess flush with the inner door panel, and now you have a structural bar across the hinge mount panel, from outer panel to inner panel and also welded to the front panel the door hinge attaches to.. Grind off the excess on the inside panel, prime and paint


what's ya think ? Is this possible ? I have yet to take my door panel off, so I can't say I've actually seen what it looks like inside there.


Waiting for speakers to be delivered, then I can look inside to see what the heck I'm talking about.

wheelieking71

hang on a sec, i have a gutted door right outside my office........

wheelieking71

here is the affected area from the hinge side:



and here is looking through a hole on the inside surface of the door at the back of the grommet the wires come through. the significance of this pic is that you can see the front surface of the "structural" part of the door:



and here is the money shot:

user name

after looking at these for a few minutes I can see what I was thinking of trying won't work. It looks like the backing plate and the hing are the same size and that is bad for metal life it acts like a shear and is likely a huge reason they fail. I'm now thinking cut up a junk door and "glue" it to the inside then build a new inner plate that isn't the same size as the hing but is still adjustable.

btw sickeningly clean door

wheelieking71

you are exactly correct user-name, in that the backing plate, and hinge are very similar in size. and that is exactly what happens. it concentrates the flex to an area about 1/8" wide. and over thousands of cycles the area work hardens and becomes brittle. then it fails. and the rate of damage increases exponentially with time. and then if you are one of those people who fling your door open (im guilty!), it only brings the failure even sooner.

the complication comes with the fact that the backing plate needs to be bigger. there is no room. so you first think of welding reinforcements to "it". but you cant do that because you would loose the adjustability of the hinge. hmmmm, how to do it?

user name

I also think the spring in the hing itself is a big problem to both the door and the hing pin. I've been thinking about that too but nothing good yet.

NJTman

Never thought of the idea of having to be able to re-adjust it after welding. I guess that whole idea is out the window...



I cannot believe the condition of that door. Amazing !


Thanks for the pix, pop a wheelieking.... or can I just call you pop...



It appears that if you added another plate (with large holes in it) in between that plate you're looking at in the picture, and welded the other plate to the shell of the door, and put the oe plate back on that might help... although you'd need longer bolts.


No ?

YOREL

Would it be possible to place a piece of thinner metal (1/8" or so) on the outside of the door skin between the hinge and the door. And then with copious amounts of adhesive and strategically placed bolts in the area of the visible spot welds, create a built up "panel" to help redistribute the load. Or would that then affect the alignment of the door? I don't remember if the other leg of the hinge which mounts to the door pillar is adjustable also, and can't look at my truck right now to verify.

wheelieking71

i think 1/8" would be too much to overcome with the available adjustment. but i was considering removing the hinge, and cutting that mounting surface off the hing completely. then welding a much larger plate on that would keep the hinges geometric dimensions the same, but provide a much larger foot-print.

i did come up with an idea that may work on the inside last night. although it would be quite involved, and difficult to explain. if i get a chance to try it soon, i will be sure to share! i just have way to many irons in the fire with my truck right now. and unfortunately, the doors are not currently at the top of the list.

j_martin

If that's a floating clamp plate, why not replace it with a bigger one.

j_martin

I think there is enough adjustment in the piller side to compensate for 1/8" of reinforcement on the door, unless you've been pushing on the deer herd and there isn't any adjustment left. (don't ask)

wheelieking71

what happens (at least what i have seen) is that the floating clamp plate rips through the door on the side where you did not draw any lines. a plate shaped like your drawing (which i have considered several times!) wont provide much more support at that pressure point. i think the the plate needs some kind of triangulation to reinforced inner and outer door skins. can you see the smoke coming out of my ears?! i have a vision of a fix in my head. but its really hard to explain.

user name

I'm thinking double layer the inside structure using pannel bonding adhesive (this stuff http://www.tcpglobal.com/AutoBodyDep...FYoDQAod1isWzA ) then use a plate similar to whats drawn with a couple through bolts to hold the outer side of that larger plate to the door. I really can't see a way to to extend the inner plate the direction it really needs to go and don't want to mess with the hinge itself.

NJTman

Hey J.

Do you think my plate will work. I spent a while trying to make it as useful as possible. ...

j_martin

Dangit, you owe me a keyboard.