Low brake pedal
04-25-2010, 05:27 PM
#16
Administrator
So from what I am understanding from this is that there is a lot of braking potential in the back brakes. Then the abs system can reduce this pressure as needed to keep the rear brakes from locking up. More load = more traction and abs should allow more pressure to the back as needed as long as it does not sense it locking up. Correct? I know a couple guys on here have bypassed the anti lock and say the brakes work much better. What about bypassing the anti lock and putting in a aftermarket style proportioning valve? This way you can fine tune it a bit. It would not prevent lock up, but it could improve braking while reducing the chance of them locking up over just bypassing the anti lock. I typically do not like the feel of antilock brakes on this vintage of vehicle. I do like the feel of the abs system in my dads 05 dodge. And as B/K suggests, every time I get in it I hit the pedal too hard and am pinned by the seat belt. This may be more of an issue of vacuum assist vs. hydro assist. But I have dad to stand on them on water before and it stopped great with out locking up. His truck also weighs a lot more than mine too. I will not argue that a computer can do a better job. I like the idea of anti lock brakes, but I feel like my rear brakes on my truck do very little stopping. I just redid my rears due to a bad wheel seal getting one side wet. The shoes were the original ones and had 160,00 on them but had very little wear. And they were adjusted properly. Is this a bad antilock system or is this pretty typical? My theory is if they are not wearing, they aren't doing much work. I know the back end is light but I feel that more braking could be done in the rear without locking it up.
04-25-2010, 06:16 PM
#17
Pod Boy (on hiatus)
Great link there. I by no means expect my truck to brake as well as my dads, I just think it could be better given how little my shoes were worn. Does it sound like there is something wrong with mine? Given the info from the link, there could be crap keeping the dump valve open and it won't throw a code. When bleeding the system I bled all the air out and continued bleeding until I got good clean fluid out of both wheel cylinders. There was no chunks in the fluid, it was just darker than the new stuff.
04-25-2010, 06:45 PM
#18
Administrator
Great link there. I by no means expect my truck to brake as well as my dads, I just think it could be better given how little my shoes were worn. Does it sound like there is something wrong with mine? Given the info from the link, there could be crap keeping the dump valve open and it won't throw a code. When bleeding the system I bled all the air out and continued bleeding until I got good clean fluid out of both wheel cylinders. There was no chunks in the fluid, it was just darker than the new stuff.
Mark
04-25-2010, 09:07 PM
#19
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Hey soot, as far as rear shoe wear, they can last as long as the truck sometimes. My old 97 ford powerstroke had 230000 miles on original shoes and they looked almost new. Still had tabs on the drums. Only thing was the liners were beginning to peel up some on the edges. Also, IIRC dark fluid is a result of moisture in the lines. 
04-25-2010, 10:43 PM
#20
Registered User
How does the 1st Gen. system "know" what the speed of the truck is; is it somehow wired into the oft-plagued electronic speedometer ??
The 1st Gen. system is just an "end to end" system, as opposed to a wheel to wheel system, right ??
Are all years of the 1st Gen. equipped with this; if not, what years do have it ??
Old timey as I am, I am sticking with my preference to a NON-antilock system.
04-25-2010, 11:00 PM
#21
Administrator
How does the 1st Gen. system "know" what the speed of the truck is; is it somehow wired into the oft-plagued electronic speedometer ??
The 1st Gen. system is just an "end to end" system, as opposed to a wheel to wheel system, right ??
Are all years of the 1st Gen. equipped with this; if not, what years do have it ??
Old timey as I am, I am sticking with my preference to a NON-antilock system.
The 1st Gen. system is just an "end to end" system, as opposed to a wheel to wheel system, right ??
Are all years of the 1st Gen. equipped with this; if not, what years do have it ??
Old timey as I am, I am sticking with my preference to a NON-antilock system.
The sensor is on top of the pumpkin and the brain, located behind the right side kick panel, "knows" how fast you are going and how fast the ring gear should be turning and bleeds pressure if they do not jive. Check that link above, it explains it better than I...I also once held to the belief that our first gens had no computer, but alas there is one
Mark
04-25-2010, 11:03 PM
#22
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all 1st gens have this system .every thing has to be working or it just dont work right .the brakes work good on my 90 but I replaced every part but the hard lines
04-26-2010, 01:47 PM
#23
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Just went thru my brakes and found out why my pedal was low .....
The rear shoes were NOT adjusted correctly - the passenger side didn't even touch the drum.
When I applied the emergency brake the driver's side would touch but you could force the wheel to turn. the passenger side spun as if the brakes were off.
Now I've got new 3" shoes in the rear and new pads on the front.....
Truck almost threw me into the windshield when I stabbed it hard. I even was able to lock the rears, and I discovered my anti-lock system is working great. The rears locked and then released slightly, just enough to allow the wheels to rotate.
At 30mph I jumped on the brakes as the curb of a 2 lane street passed out of sight at my hood and the truck stopped with the hood still in the street before the other curb. I guess the street was 20' wide and the truck stopped in ~ 15'.
The rear shoes were NOT adjusted correctly - the passenger side didn't even touch the drum.
When I applied the emergency brake the driver's side would touch but you could force the wheel to turn. the passenger side spun as if the brakes were off.
Now I've got new 3" shoes in the rear and new pads on the front.....
Truck almost threw me into the windshield when I stabbed it hard. I even was able to lock the rears, and I discovered my anti-lock system is working great. The rears locked and then released slightly, just enough to allow the wheels to rotate.
At 30mph I jumped on the brakes as the curb of a 2 lane street passed out of sight at my hood and the truck stopped with the hood still in the street before the other curb. I guess the street was 20' wide and the truck stopped in ~ 15'.
04-27-2010, 07:15 PM
#24
Registered User
When I did the brakes in mine the only things I didn't replace was the booster and the rear wheel cylinders. To check to see if they were working I put the truck on jack stands ran it and tried the parking brake and it locked instantly. Stepping on the pedal did the same so I know I have rear brakes(no REWAL valve) but on the road the rears won't lock up but the fronts will. I tried to put it in a 4 wheel slide but it won't do it. Pulling the GN I put a lot of brake on the trailer as the stopping in this truck is OK at best.
04-27-2010, 09:23 PM
#25
Registered User
I have a truck with 16k original. No part of the system has seen the light of day from 1993 until now.All factory components and hardware on essentially what is a new truck with no rust/wear/corrosion. This truck's rear brakes are unbelievable. I have had many first gen dodges of all types and this is the first in probably thirty to actually demonstrate rear braking under normal driving.
That said, the rears lock up fairly easy in a light panic stop with no indication of ABS dumping. There are no trouble lights for the ABS. With the rear raised off the ground in drive at any speed, application lets the brakes lock like stick in spoke.It seems as soon as the shoes touch they grab like a contaminated shoe, but they aren't.Park brake works proper, and the wheels don't have drag when spun by hand.
That said, this is the first 1st gen i've owned that is untouched. Do I assume that without abs function this was the designed stopping ability of the rear? HUGE difference from previous similar trucks but scary. The brakes work in the rear which is a big plus but skid too easily on dry pavement.
Now, after spending the evening reading related posts I am still at a crossroads as to where to start beyond the simple. Is this stick in spoke effect great brakes or some fluid issue in the RWAL dump valve?
my leads are:
RWAL dump valve
Proportioning (combi) valve
However the rwal brain interprets the speed signal of speedo vs sensor in differential ( I recently replaced the VSS on t-case)
Possible 17 year old shoe issue??? Regardless there is no ABS effect.
Is there a way to recenter the dump valve besides a hard stop?
That said, the rears lock up fairly easy in a light panic stop with no indication of ABS dumping. There are no trouble lights for the ABS. With the rear raised off the ground in drive at any speed, application lets the brakes lock like stick in spoke.It seems as soon as the shoes touch they grab like a contaminated shoe, but they aren't.Park brake works proper, and the wheels don't have drag when spun by hand.
That said, this is the first 1st gen i've owned that is untouched. Do I assume that without abs function this was the designed stopping ability of the rear? HUGE difference from previous similar trucks but scary. The brakes work in the rear which is a big plus but skid too easily on dry pavement.
Now, after spending the evening reading related posts I am still at a crossroads as to where to start beyond the simple. Is this stick in spoke effect great brakes or some fluid issue in the RWAL dump valve?
my leads are:
RWAL dump valve
Proportioning (combi) valve
However the rwal brain interprets the speed signal of speedo vs sensor in differential ( I recently replaced the VSS on t-case)
Possible 17 year old shoe issue??? Regardless there is no ABS effect.
Is there a way to recenter the dump valve besides a hard stop?
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