1972RedNeck

Do they use Bosch tips? If not, don't buy them.

Also, are they SAC or VCO nozzles? If you want to completely get rid of the haze, one is better than the other (I forget which).

And just what does stage one mean? They claim they are 75 HP injectors - what does that mean? What is the hole count? Hole size? Are you sure they are the correct spray angle? Just because they list them for 91.5 - 93 doesn't mean that they are the correct spray angle...

DOZENVALVE

talked to one of their guys on the phone today. ill be getting more info on the injectors tomorrow since they are local to me.


he told me the way they build their injectors is completely different and not comparable to say a 5x.012 or a 5x.014.


I know they use brand new bosch bodies. the guy told me that most companies re-use nozzles and either drill them out or use EDM for a bigger opening. he said this leaves a rough edge which doesn't alow for quite the flow. claims their 5x.010 flows as well as the competitors 5x.012.


if they are the wrong spray angle I will not be getting them. ill have a talk with him tomorrow before any money is set down.

DOZENVALVE

Also I can't remember if they are VCO or SAC. I believe VCO. From what I've been told from other people as well including a guy at hungry diesel and at DAP as well as the guy from DDP, going to make a little more power at the top end with the SAC, but they will drop when fully closed, so it's going to haze more at idle. You will pay for the power with the excessive smoke. I think DAP has the SACs listed as 10 more horse than the VCO.

j.fonder

well no matter how they "build" their injectors, they have to have holes in them and the holes have to be a certain size (ie. 5x.012, etc) the rest is just smoke and mirrors. VCO will be cleanest in a 6x10 or 5x12, anything larger SAC is recommended. these "75 hp" and "10 more hp" claims are also BS. i assure you no truck from one injector to the next will gain you 75 hp on injectors alone. get some real numbers, # of holes, size of hole, flow numbers(LPM), if they can't give you this, i wouldn't even consider buying them.

DOZENVALVE

Okay so here is what I know. DDP claims their stage one injector for 89-93 trucks is capable of supporting up to 50hp over stock. Of course with other modifications. Their 89-93 injector is a Genuine Bosch body and nozzle. They are 4 hole. They hone their injector holes for better flow and in the end they are tapered; wider on the inside and narrower on the outside. This increases velocity as the fuel flows throw the injector and it atomizes much better because of this. Their end result of their nozzle is very polished and smooth, unlike most competitors who use a drill bit which leaves burrs on the backside of the hole, or EDM which leaves a rough texture on the inside of the nozzle almost like slag. DDP pushes an abrasive media through their nozzles at anywhere between 10,000-30,000psi to make all this happen. Since the holes. On their nozzles are tapered, it would be hard to give an actual hole size to their customer. If I could t get the exact measurements of the tapered hole from inside to out, it would be hard to compare that to a hole which is the same diameter all the way throughout, and which may have small burrs or slag inside the nozzle.





Their claim to fame

DOZENVALVE

And the flow rate he told me and I forgot. I think it was 45lpm

j.fonder

again, mostly smoke and mirrors. they're selling pressure instead of volume with the whole "tapered hole" bit. you can't a square peg in a round hole no matter how hard you push. the 45 LPM flow rate is a start, i think stock IC injectors are around 40 LPM

i guess i'm just wary of the bigger box companies like DDP, especially with explanations like that.

DOZENVALVE

I also contacted hungry diesel, smaller company, but they outsource to a company on the east coast and everything is made to order and then drop shipped from there. I'm an impatient person, so I opted for the right here
Right now. I also don't know if DDP is a bigger box company. They may be bigger but they are no DAP, Who rate their injectors how you see they should be rated. DDP does all their work here in the PNW, which is good for me.

I'm going to test them out and re post here on this thread about how they perform. If it fixes my rough cold smoky white-blue idle issue at 65 degree intake temps, I'm sold. And maybe I'll need to tweak the pump as well. I'll know soon. I'm not going to discount a place though just because they do this different then everyone else.

j.fonder

i hear you. i'm just a creature of habit, lol. looking forward to hearing how they work out, especially compared to a stock IC injector. mine are getting tired. maybe I was thinking of DAP instead of DDP

DOZENVALVE

I've got faith in these guys. The things that were going on in their shop when I was there today were nothing to shake a sick at. Hope it works in my favor.

1972RedNeck

Two major red flags stand out in that paragraph. 89 - 91.5 use a different injector than 91.5-93 so how can they be grouped together?

Also, if you are going for no smoke, you want the best atomization of the fuel in the combustion chamber that is possible. Four hole injectors are NOT the best. Five would be good, six would be better.

But you seem set in your ways, which is good, you just might have to learn a little more from the school of hard knocks.

j.fonder

I do know of a very reputable and knowledgeable member on CF.com that is running these injectors. didn't realize it until now, but I know he gets really good fuel mileage and has no complaints about them. not sure if he's a member here though

DOZENVALVE

And that may be so. Would be the first time I learned the hard way. I also thought it was weird that they grouped 89-93 together, but they are the only company that does that. Also I remember him saying that their injectors put the fuel in a completely different spot in the bowl than factory. Maybe they have a spray pattern/angle that works efficiently on both types of Pistons?

That's a step in the right direction for my wallets sake!

oliver foster

Yeah when I hear '89-'93 injectors, I get nervous as they should be two injector choices for '89-'91 and another for '91.5 -'93.

j.fonder

I guess I've learned the hard way enough times for both of us then!

I would be worried about this "completely different spot" statement. look at what a 155* injector(89-91) will do in a 145*(91.5-93) piston truck and you'll know. hazy smoky mess! hopefully that's not the case with these. hurry up and get them in so we can stop speculating!

other companies list 89-93 but then in fine print will tell you "as compared to 91.5-93" or something like that. main thing to look at is spray angle and are they 7mm or 9mm tip. IC injectors are 145* and 7mm.

I do find it interesting that they claim great atomization yet have 4 hole injectors. looking forward to a review

edit: also, 89-93 is an ok description as long as the injectors are 7mm. adapters can be used to install them in a non-ic truck, but not the other way around.