GasganoFJ60

This past Sunday, on hr 6 of an 8 hr drive, something in my driveline failed, busted a new u-joint and tans fluid was pouring out from the front of the transmission.

Got a tow to a friends garage that was on the way home, dropped it off and haven't examined it at all because i had to finish the last of the trip in a borrowed truck so i could get home and help a relative move from texas to nyc. Been on the road all this week.

First id like to ask for yalls theories on what may have gone wrong.


Im anticipating the worst and figure my trans was being a dodge and decided to poop out, i wonder, what would you do in my place, should the trans be the issue.
Rebuild the stocker, buy a performance trans from ATS and alike or swap in a nv4500?

Thank you for your time.

u2slow

Hmmm... you think the trans seized and snapped the driveline, or vice-versa?

Don't know your preference (auto/stick) or your handy-ness. I like stick, and pretty determined to find my stuff cheap and DIY. That said, I would go with the first/easiest available batch of manual trans parts I could rustle up and make work. Probably buy a parts truck.

A few points to consider:
- Move up to a built 47RH and you gain a lockup converter. Need 94-95 engine plate though.
- easiest way to do 5spd is with a parts truck. Pedals, trans, t-case input, maybe driveshafts, steering column?
- NV4500 you need the plate and bellhousing off a 2nd gen, or costly adapters. Still need to address the 29/23 spline difference.

GasganoFJ60

Im not sure. A friend and I talked it over and he suggested that.
I was driving along @65 or so then "BAM"(or maybe it was a "POW"? It all happened so fast...)

Anyway, "BAM" horrible knocking/grinding noise so I quickly got off and skidded to a stop on the shoulder between the two lanes of the highway. Got out and checked the damage the best I could at night, CURSED A LOT, then I got back in and managed to limp the truck about 10 more feet to be fully off the road. Then I shut her down to keep from loosing ALL the fluid in case I needed it to move any more under its own power. The rest of the moving its done has been via tow truck.

We also think perhaps, somehow or another, the t-case slipped into a gear on its own?? Perhaps?

My dad seems to think I lost a motor mount or trans mount and the sudden shift in the driveline location cause all the chaos.

Wont know what overall damage was actually done till maybe next week, possibly in 2 when I get back back from NYC.

Ill take either auto or manual. Manual is more fun though.

Im leaning towards the NV4500.

sooty

engine would be visibly canted, I cant see that being the case, look at the fluid, the story is in the atf, dark, overheat, metal, component failure, when something goes like that, it usually fills the pan with what came apart, from the front, ive seen converters come unbolted, or snap the pump drive, dosent sound good. I love my 4500's, you need to build them right to enjoy dependability.

cougar

If I had the money and available parts, I'd put in a NV4500 in a heart beat. Mainly for economic reasons. Autos wear out. The harder you work them the faster they wear out. A properly maintained manual will last indefinitely with only an occasional clutch change which is bunches cheaper than an auto overhaul.

imbodie

It was time to do a clutch on my 5spd anyway so first quote I got on a rebuild for it was $2000 with new clutch... Hey.. its got over 350k miles and a 3rd gear grind which has been with it since I bought the truck with 220k...

It only dropped 5th gear at 230k (was original per transmission guy)

I think I'm staying with the 5spd.

Tim

u2slow

Also check if there's oil in the tcase... I've seen the results of one seize up at highway speeds. In this Suburban, it ripped the end off the 4L80E as it broke free.

Not much to the NV4500 reliability other than the 5th gear nut and running the correct lube. Stock Getrag 13" clutches have served me well... they are bigger than the stock NV4500 clutch.

Here's some parts that will help with getting a NV4500 in there:
http://www.shsdiesel.com/1st_Gen_Products.html
http://www.advanceadapters.com/produ...spline-nv4500/

GasganoFJ60

I checked my fluids before I got on the road. The t-case was fine. The trans was a quart low or so. I have been running Amsoil ATF for the past 6 years or so in it. I didnt have any amsoil to top it off with so I had to use some off-brand stuff from the store(was all they had)

I reeeallly hope that mess didnt cause this failure...I dont even wanna think about that.

Thank you for the links. I had done a few searches the other night for parts and I could not find that spline adapter.

Off to bed. Covered 690 miles today and still have a few hours to go tomorrow.


Thank y'all again for your help!

Rick 12v CTD

The planetaries might have just grenaded. Wouldn't be the first time that happened to someone. They are aluminum. There's a reason people upgrade to steel. Hopefully whatever happened didn't ruin your case.

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GasganoFJ60

Well my Dad and a friend of mine picked up my truck and drove it home. My friend was able to crawl around the truck in the daylight to see what may have happened. He discovered my overdrive casing is crack all the way around the body. Reason, he thinks, fluid appeared to be pouring from the front of the trans was fluid was running out of the cracks, along the body of the trans and off the front. Makes sense, I was parked on kinda a downhill slope that night on the side of the road.

They actually drove it onto the trailer in FWD, it struggled and slipped, due to loosing oil and pressure.

So the trans and tcase apear to be OK, for now.

Now the dilemma, do I just replace the OD unit?
Or take this chance to upgrade?

Speaking of upgrade, I found a g360, bell housing, clutch and pressure plate for 1200 in the area. From the sound of it, the trans is well used and will probably need to be rebuilt.

Is that a deal? Should I keep looking for a better shape G or keep looking for an NV?

I lean towards the G for ease of installation.

And I know this is a dead horse, but are NVs really head and shoulders above the G or visa versa?

I'd like to crank the motor up a bit in the future, but I don't plan on setting HP records or make weekend runs at the tractor pull. I like my fuel mileage.

j_martin

There is a radial ball bearing in the middle of that OD housing that does some serious thrust duty. When they go, they usually mess up everything with steel chips. It looks like yours got so bad it seized up.

As long as you have to tear down and clean everything, might as well put some serious parts in it. That tranny has a couple of weak spots, but overall it's one tough box. I pulled a recreation double 3500 miles with 2 valve body mounting screws in the pan. I made NATCO pull the pan because it had a noise in it. (they couldn't hear it.) I think the front pump was sucking a little air. No damage. Put the screws in and put my AmZoil fluid back in.

GasganoFJ60

I got some pics of it, 3 total but this is the best one.



It broke all the way around.

cougar

"And I know this is a dead horse, but are NVs really head and shoulders above the G or visa versa?"
People use to say the Getrags were junk. But after replacing them with NV4500's that opinion seems to have shifted the other way. More people are leaning toward the Getrag. My only complaint was the gear spacing could have been better, especially when towing. Mine went almost 300K before an overhaul, but all it really needed was synchros. The only thing it didn't hold up to was a wreck.

GasganoFJ60

I guess its all who you ask.
Ive know several people who have NVs and all of them have either lost5th gear(on guy i know has lost 5th 3 times) or 3-4 gears drop, or just toal failure. None of them have had modded trucks, its just their daily work trucks.
Hard for me to be convinced their tough when stock motors are breaking them in a few years.

Ive never know anyone to have a G.

So is 1200 a good price for a used G, bell, pressure and clutch?

Beyond that I should just need the hydrolics, pedals, spline adapter and different mount, correct?

cougar

$1200 ain't a bad price, but it depends on the condition. Core value is $500.
Auto and manual T cases are different. More than just swapping the coupler which you can't because they don't make a 23 to 29 spline adapter, unfortunately. At least I haven't heard of one. You will also need to shorten your front drive shaft and lengthen the rear.