I have never seen a head gasket blow so qucikly
03-26-2009, 10:19 AM
#46
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Shoot, the PDF is too big to email. I'll try to find where I downloaded it from
have you had any luck finding where you downloaded that manual from? thats something i would like to look at!! there is so much about these engines i dont know!! this forum is like a gift from the cummins gods!
good luck with that gasket!!
have you had any luck finding where you downloaded that manual from? thats something i would like to look at!! there is so much about these engines i dont know!! this forum is like a gift from the cummins gods!
good luck with that gasket!!
03-26-2009, 09:48 PM
#47
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MMmmmkay. This is starting to get real old. I've been scraping at that old gasket for literally days now. Bloody knuckles. Broken exacto knives. I'm out of time and patience.
The drill won't fit down there at an angle that's useful. The dremel barely fits.
I've soaked it repeatedly with spray on gasket remover from Cummins, to the point where I'm worried that this might drip down the edge and effect the oil pan gasket.
Scrape and scrape and scrape, now with an extra long flathead screwdriver, that I can bend for extra force and leverage on those frozen gasket remains.
Who on Earth thought this would be a good design, where someone, someday, would have to spend 8-10 hours or more scraping glued on bits of pertified metal gasket off of the block ?
Why not just route the oil cooler through the radiator itself ?
Anyway.
Just how clean does the block where the gasket mates to it have to be anyway ?
Seeing as you don't use RTV or anything, pretty darn clean, I'm guessing.
The drill won't fit down there at an angle that's useful. The dremel barely fits.
I've soaked it repeatedly with spray on gasket remover from Cummins, to the point where I'm worried that this might drip down the edge and effect the oil pan gasket.
Scrape and scrape and scrape, now with an extra long flathead screwdriver, that I can bend for extra force and leverage on those frozen gasket remains.
Who on Earth thought this would be a good design, where someone, someday, would have to spend 8-10 hours or more scraping glued on bits of pertified metal gasket off of the block ?
Why not just route the oil cooler through the radiator itself ?
Anyway.
Just how clean does the block where the gasket mates to it have to be anyway ?
Seeing as you don't use RTV or anything, pretty darn clean, I'm guessing.
03-27-2009, 03:24 AM
#49
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Alright.
I put everything back together, put in new fluids, started it and went for a drive.
Sure moves a lot quicker with that 16cm exhaust housing. Ran slightly hotter than usual at 60mph, the temp gauge was about halfway up, but that could have been the soap suds in the radiator. Ran at normal temp on the side streets.
No funny noises that I could discern.
About 1 mile side streets, 2 miles highway, 30 minutes idling in the driveway total.
Eh, I wonder if it isn't the head gasket after all.
That first round of replacement oil came out the color of chocolate milk, all runny. Just like the oil that was in there when whatever failed, failed. Yeah, probably the head gasket too.
And there is a little new wetness at the end of the motor around #6.
sigh.
All those years I had a 6.2L, it never gave me this amount of trouble. I guess sometime this weekend I'll get around to compression testing it to see what the deal is.
What do head gasket jobs on these usually run, like over $1000 ?
I'm honestly starting to wonder if that would be good money after bad at this point.
I put everything back together, put in new fluids, started it and went for a drive.
Sure moves a lot quicker with that 16cm exhaust housing. Ran slightly hotter than usual at 60mph, the temp gauge was about halfway up, but that could have been the soap suds in the radiator. Ran at normal temp on the side streets.
No funny noises that I could discern.
About 1 mile side streets, 2 miles highway, 30 minutes idling in the driveway total.
Eh, I wonder if it isn't the head gasket after all.
That first round of replacement oil came out the color of chocolate milk, all runny. Just like the oil that was in there when whatever failed, failed. Yeah, probably the head gasket too.
And there is a little new wetness at the end of the motor around #6.
sigh.
All those years I had a 6.2L, it never gave me this amount of trouble. I guess sometime this weekend I'll get around to compression testing it to see what the deal is.
What do head gasket jobs on these usually run, like over $1000 ?
I'm honestly starting to wonder if that would be good money after bad at this point.
03-27-2009, 08:41 AM
#50
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Do it yourself ~ https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...d.php?t=236843
The head-gasket should cost around $100. You can reuse the other gaskets (exhaust manifold, turbo, valve-cover) in a pinch if they show no problems.
The head-gasket should cost around $100. You can reuse the other gaskets (exhaust manifold, turbo, valve-cover) in a pinch if they show no problems.
03-27-2009, 06:32 PM
#51
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Do it yourself ~ https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...d.php?t=236843
The head-gasket should cost around $100. You can reuse the other gaskets (exhaust manifold, turbo, valve-cover) in a pinch if they show no problems.
The head-gasket should cost around $100. You can reuse the other gaskets (exhaust manifold, turbo, valve-cover) in a pinch if they show no problems.
The other hard parts are getting the head to a machine shop to have it looked at, and inspecting the pistons and stuff to see if water in the cylinders from the blown gasket ruined 'em.
The rest...well, I can always borrow a torque wrench.
Thing is, if one pays a shop to do it, it is done right in theory at least, and there is a warranty.
03-27-2009, 06:37 PM
#52
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A $25 torque wrench from Harbor Freight is good enough, also stores like AutoZone "rent" specialty tools for free. Basically you buy it, they let you use it then return it for full credit.
03-27-2009, 07:43 PM
#53
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If you have a reasonably able helper you can do it by hand, that's the only way I've done it. It only weighs around 100 lbs, so it could be done with a come-along or a chain hoist hung off a sturdy tree branch or a garage rafter. A front-end loader or an engine hoist works fine but is really overkill for the weight involved.
A $25 torque wrench from Harbor Freight is good enough, also stores like AutoZone "rent" specialty tools for free. Basically you buy it, they let you use it then return it for full credit.
A $25 torque wrench from Harbor Freight is good enough, also stores like AutoZone "rent" specialty tools for free. Basically you buy it, they let you use it then return it for full credit.
Is there any way one can check the head for cracks and/ or a flat surface at home ? Or is that a machine shop thing only.
And how about the cylinders + pistons ? Could that water have ruined 'em ?
How can a gasket and an oil cooler blow at the same time, anyway ? Weird.
I guess this is the next step in my life...learn to do a head gasket.
Who has the best gaskets ? Cummins ? Or are those over-priced ? I've noticed that some genuine Cummins parts are cheaper for some reason at various retailers than they are from Cummins itself. But the Cummins parts desk in my city is open until midnight !
I've heard about "torque angle" with regard to head gasket repair before. Is this important for the 6bt ?
And taps and dies for the head bolt holes...where to get those...the list goes on...
03-27-2009, 08:22 PM
#54
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A short straightedge and feeler gauges will do for flat. The intercooled heads aren't prone to cracking.
You didn't hydrolock it so the rotating assembly is fine. Coolant is tough on the bearings if you let it go a long time, but you are on top of it so not problem.
You want a Cummins head gasket. Doesn't have to come straight from Cummins. Ask them for a discount off list, the worst they can do is say no.
Torque angle means 1/4 turn past the torque spec. Not rocket science.
You don't need taps and dies to change the gasket. As long as the bolts thread in smoothly the torque will be accurate.
You didn't hydrolock it so the rotating assembly is fine. Coolant is tough on the bearings if you let it go a long time, but you are on top of it so not problem.
You want a Cummins head gasket. Doesn't have to come straight from Cummins. Ask them for a discount off list, the worst they can do is say no.
Torque angle means 1/4 turn past the torque spec. Not rocket science.
You don't need taps and dies to change the gasket. As long as the bolts thread in smoothly the torque will be accurate.
03-27-2009, 08:27 PM
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A short straightedge and feeler gauges will do for flat. The intercooled heads aren't prone to cracking.
You didn't hydrolock it so the rotating assembly is fine. Coolant is tough on the bearings if you let it go a long time, but you are on top of it so not problem.
You want a Cummins head gasket. Doesn't have to come straight from Cummins. Ask them for a discount off list, the worst they can do is say no.
Torque angle means 1/4 turn past the torque spec. Not rocket science.
You don't need taps and dies to change the gasket. As long as the bolts thread in smoothly the torque will be accurate.
You didn't hydrolock it so the rotating assembly is fine. Coolant is tough on the bearings if you let it go a long time, but you are on top of it so not problem.
You want a Cummins head gasket. Doesn't have to come straight from Cummins. Ask them for a discount off list, the worst they can do is say no.
Torque angle means 1/4 turn past the torque spec. Not rocket science.
You don't need taps and dies to change the gasket. As long as the bolts thread in smoothly the torque will be accurate.
The article recommends tapping the bolt holes. Might as well do it right.
03-29-2009, 05:01 AM
#56
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Well, I'm a little further along. Got most of the stuff out of the way to pull the head.
Problem is the injectors. Stuck, to the point I'm afraid I'll just round them off with vise grips. Hold down nuts on 1-5 are off, all 6 are soaking in WD40 overnight.
No equipment here to make the homemade injector removal tool with.
Is it absolutely necessary to remove them when pulling the head off ? What happens if you leave them in and remove the head ?
Problem is the injectors. Stuck, to the point I'm afraid I'll just round them off with vise grips. Hold down nuts on 1-5 are off, all 6 are soaking in WD40 overnight.
No equipment here to make the homemade injector removal tool with.
Is it absolutely necessary to remove them when pulling the head off ? What happens if you leave them in and remove the head ?
03-29-2009, 07:07 AM
#57
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They are removed to prevent you damaging the tips. The tips stick through the lower surface of the head and are very vulnerable when you are pulling and reinstalling the head.
The metric nut does not HAVE to be welded on. If you crank it onto the allthread or bolt you are using about a turn, it will hold well enough to pull the injectors unless they are stuck bad.
The metric nut does not HAVE to be welded on. If you crank it onto the allthread or bolt you are using about a turn, it will hold well enough to pull the injectors unless they are stuck bad.
03-29-2009, 10:40 PM
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GOT THE INJECTORS OUT !
A half can of PB spray and elbow grease did it.
Now, on to removing the valve components and so forth.
Here's a question. I dropped all the head bolts on cement from about 5 feet to listen to them ring, and they all ring clear as a bell, except for the little stubby ones on the exhaust manifold side. Those make a short little high pitched ping. I'm assuming this is just because of their small size, that this is normal and they are OK ?
I'm on a real budget here. No money for brand new bolts if these are reusable.
Alright, next thing is to assemble my cheap Harbor Freight hoist. No helper around with a good strong back, so I need it.
A half can of PB spray and elbow grease did it.
Now, on to removing the valve components and so forth.
Here's a question. I dropped all the head bolts on cement from about 5 feet to listen to them ring, and they all ring clear as a bell, except for the little stubby ones on the exhaust manifold side. Those make a short little high pitched ping. I'm assuming this is just because of their small size, that this is normal and they are OK ?
I'm on a real budget here. No money for brand new bolts if these are reusable.
Alright, next thing is to assemble my cheap Harbor Freight hoist. No helper around with a good strong back, so I need it.
03-29-2009, 10:57 PM
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Yeah, that's what I meant, the rocker arms and push rods.
Those head bolts really make a different sound than the long ones, it's not a "ring" at all, more dull sounding. I suppose they are all right though.
Injector #6 came out just soaked in dirty water-contaminated looking oil. That's where the water leak was visible at the end of the motor. Guess I found where the gasket probably blew, eh ?
Those head bolts really make a different sound than the long ones, it's not a "ring" at all, more dull sounding. I suppose they are all right though.
Injector #6 came out just soaked in dirty water-contaminated looking oil. That's where the water leak was visible at the end of the motor. Guess I found where the gasket probably blew, eh ?