I haven't thought this through a great deal but would it be possible to supply 99% pure oxy into the charge air flow...say at the intake horn area????

pb...

 

Why not inject some acetylene in there too, just for good measure?

Sounds like an interesting idea though. I'm assuming that you'd be using oxygen like used in industrial/welding applications?

 

isnt that basically the same concept as nitrous oxide? rapid oxidization?

 

I'm not sure about how nitrous works, but the fuel would burn super fast and HOT.

There are a few problems I can see. I'm assuming that you'd be using welding type cylinders to get almost pure oxygen.

1. Legality/safety. You'd need a regulator on the bottle which would mean you couldn't have a cap on while driving, which is illegal here in the states. Not sure what the regulations are in canada. Either way, driving around with an oxy cylinder with a regulator on it is not safe.

2. Cylinder temps. I don't know how the pure oxygen would affect the combustion temps, but I know that pure oxygen when mixed with a fuel makes an extremely hot flame (oxy/acetylene torches, for example). It might get hot enough to weld the pistons to your block. Maybe someone with more knowledge can chime in.

3. You'd have to rig up some sorta of gas flow solenoid like in a TIG or MIG welding machine to start/stop the flow of the gas. Probably wouldn't be too hard, but something to think about.

Sounds like this could make insane power for a bit, but also sounds maybe a tad bit dangerous and very costly.

 

I believe that when you consider the kinds of cfm's you'd need to accomplish your objective that it wouldn't be economically feasible. In order to use oxy injection you'd probably want something in the hundreds of cfm's and a second turbo would likely be cheaper overall without the continual cost per mile for more air from a bottle.

 

We've thought about it in the past on a naturally aspirated engine as a way to artficially increase the air density of the intake air. I've never tried it, nor do I know how much flow it would take to make a difference and how much would be too much. I might try in on a dyno one of these days, but not anytime soon.

 

I am just guessing but I would think that W/meth would be a better choice because of the egt temps and probably cheaper in the long run. If it does work you need a little bottle for the riding lawnmower

 

what would happen if you used oxygen in place of nitrous oxide?

 

Now *there's* an understatement!

A pure oxygen environment makes it easier for any combustable material to ignite. If ignited under pressure, it's a bomb (not our kind of BOMB, either).

A sample of the hazards of handling oxygen is given in this Ontario notice:
http://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/hs/alerts/a06.html
...and some notes on handling it are in this note:
http://www.tpub.com/content/doe/h101...1015v2_120.htm
The pressurized part of the system between the bottle and the reducer/regulator would have to be high-pressure piping and absolutely clean.

But, to continue the discusson, wouldn't the pressure regulator output have to be lower than the boost supplied by the turbo? If it was higher, it would pressurize back thru the intercooler and do funny things to the turbo. Where would you measure that boost pressure - maybe at the intercooler input?

Interesting idea.

Regards, DBF

 

very good Points DBF grate short articels

after reading them links it soulds like if the turbo was ever to start pumping oil you would have one h^&**&*^l of a bang in the induction system,fallowed by a nice fire under the hood!

I thing that the pressure would have to be higher then the boost and would have to be interduce at the manifold......after the heat grid?

I thing that the amount that would be sprayed in to the intake air strean would delute the oxygen to a safe non precombustion state!.................TIC TIC,TIC

I wounder if you could get lower persentage of a oxygen tank?

or maybe mix with some sort of non famable gas......that mix didn't make something even more scarry!

 

Meandering thoughts . . . . .

The infernal combustion engine works by heating air with fuel. Said air expands, pushing the piston, . . . . blah, blah.


It's my understanding that the diesel is very similar to the gas engine in that the stoichiometric ratio is approximately 14.7 to 1 (+/- pending your application).

With that, any extra O2 is a waste of O2.

As mentioned above, Many solids and liquids readily combust in an environment of pure O2 (Stainless Steel for example), especially at elevated temperatures. An oil leak would ruin your day.



Nitrous Oxide works in the infernal combustion engine by ~

When the gas is heated above 575*F (+/-) it breaks down into it's basic components which are roughly one part Oxygen, and two parts nitrogen. Clearly, the O2 mixed with the proper ratio of fuel creates the heat needed to expand the air. But as seen with all the puddles along the drag strip, going lean on fuel is a huge no-no. (the additional nitrogen provided as a result of the decomposition of the nitrous oxide acts as somewhat a anti-detonate in the gas engine, not sure about the diesel).

Regardless, going too lean in the diesel will result in much higher combustion temperatures (assuming you're really pumping the O2) to the point of component failure.

O2 in itself is not a danger, it's the stuff the pure gas comes in contact with that prove worry-some. For that, one would have to incorporate very reliable control with fail-safes.



Geeezzz . . . .

. . . . . . Just get a bigger turbo . . . .


http://www.physlink.com/reference/AirComposition.cfm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_fuel_ratio

 

You can think of Nitrous Oxide as basically "watered down" oxygen. Water down as in 2 parts inert nitogen and 1 part oxygen.

The cumbustion with pure oxygen would be way to much for an engine and stuff would melt pretty quickly. Wouldn't be pretty. Nitrous is used because you can inject oxygen, but in a lesser quanity and in a more controlled manner.

Den

 

Nitrous is much safer, and it has the added benefit of being in a liquid form in the bottle. When it flashes to vapor it absorbs a tremendous amount of heat from the charge air. Also you can carry a lot more of it on board. A 20 lb. nitrous bottle contains around 2,500 cubic feet of nitrous oxide gas at STP. A compressed oxygen cylinder of equivalent size only holds about 100 cubic feet at STP. Even going to a standard size cylinder would only get you 282 cubic feet - at a significant weight penalty over the nitrous bottle.

Good news for ya, though - the cylinder cap is no problem, there are split caps designed specifically for mobile welding trucks.

 

That is the greatest mispelling I have ever seen in my entire life.

 

Quite intentional.