All,

I am VERY close to buying a new set of injectors. I only want to buy one set which means I don't mind getting a bigger set and just having to turn my pump down until I can get a suitable turbo for them.

My concern is when you get into a large injector their are surging and rough idle possibilities because some of the combination of sizes have never been tested/run for real world results so its almost a shot in the dark to get a custom set built that have a good reputation. I realize that's not the case with them all, but it seems most of the bigger injectors built are for dyno/sled trucks who's owners don't care about a rough idle or surge.

I am wanting a large EDM'd injector that Scheids can make (I have a inside track with them) that will not surge or cause a rough idle and will be road friendly pulling my RV or Cattle trailer at 75 MPH.

Is that asking to much? Should I re-evaluate my desired results? Please offer all the real world advice you can including any specific injectors you know about. I'd really appreciate it.

Oh, and everyone have a wonderful weekend!

 

How much power are you wanting to make in the end? Thats a big factor. I dont have alot of injector knoledge personlay but I do know that even the DDP's I have will make alot more power than you can keep cool while towing. With a big enough radiator and huge IC you could pull a loaded cattle trailer up a 8% grade at 80mph in 5th, but things would get hot and break.

If your wanting more power to play while not towing then I have heard all kinds of raves about the 6x16's. Tons of fuel but not bad mannered. Just keep a close eye on the gauges pulling because things may go down hill fast.

 

Theres always 6x12's and 6x14's.....

 

Bigger injectors means your going into other areas on the truck to.

Your wanting to tow. That 12cm housing is going to make EGT controll a little hard to do with bigger injectors. It is restrictive.

That HX35 is border line for air flow for a fueled up engine.

I don't see a 4" exhaust in your sig. Better add that to the list.

If you have the stock 1st gen air intake horn. Get rid of it. Go with a 2nd gen 24 valve air horn or a set of cooltubz's.

For a towing app opening the IC to a 3" in and out will help. For WOT performance its doesn't.


If you increase fuel flow you need to address air flow into and out of the engine.

Now after the above lecture.

I am running a set of 6X.018's injectors. With all the mods I mentioned above done to my truck. I am running the fuel screw down to the lock collar. It was like that when I removed the cover. Timing is stock. Fuel pin at its deepest. Smoke screw stock and still sealed.

I have a HX40 turbo and 4" exhaust.

Max EGT's I see on a WOT blast to 90 MPH is right at 1000 degrees. Towing a trailer isn't any different till I get above a 10K load on it.

You can tow with big injectors but you need to address the other areas our Dodges are weak in. Air Flow

 

But with 6x12 and 6x14 injectors do you have to get them custom cut? What about 6x16's? I thought if you had a set of injectors custom made that it would always cost another $300 on top of the average $350-400 peformance injector cost? If you buy Scheid 75-80 HP upgrade injectors for a 1st GEN will they be a 6 hole injector? Or a 4 or 5 hole, like other vendors?

 

What most places sell as replacements is their choice of tip selection. These would be called off the self parts. You have very little choice.

When your the one paying for a set of custom injectors you tell them what you want. If you tell them you want a 6X.0??. with a 1st gen spray angle and they send you something else. Send it back end of story.

Customs do cost more.

 

I want to run a set of 6-12's or 6-14's in my 92 because it will be used as a trailer hauler. I have a set of 6-18's in the duallie and I have pulled over 10k with it but I have A LOT of air flow on that motor. For a vehical that you want performance and towing then I would do 6-14 injectors and 62/71/14 turbo. The egt's would be very controllable and you should see no surging. That combo could make around 450rwhp and pull like crazy.

 

That's my problem, after talking with Scheid's, they did not have anyone they could point me to that had ran either of these injectors in a 1st gen. As I stated, I don't want to buy a set of one or the other and deal with a rough idle and surge. My truck is a highway towing truck and its my understanding the surge is a big problem if you use your cruise a lot, which I do, and I sure don't want it doing it with a trailer behind me.



Thanks for all the good advice. My plan is to buy injectors once. I do not have a desire for a specific RWHP as to be honest I never plan to even dyno my truck. I'm the type of guy that has no problem turning my pump down to accomodate the smaller charger until I can upgrade if I go with a big set of injectors right off the bat. My plan is also to buy a PS intercooler and some sort of radiator upgrade if possible as i don't like the temps my truck runs while towing. That's obviously a different thread!

 

I had this surge with a turned up pump and bosch 190's injectors. Which are not a very big injector compared to stock. This surge isn't so much a problem with the injectors as it is with the cruise control system. The problem is with bigger injectors, or even just stock injectors and a turned up pump is that the pump fueling becomes too sensitive for what the CC actuator was designed. So the fix is to install a precisely calibrated orifice in the vacuum line going to the CC vacuum actuator. This will keep the actuator from pulling the throttle so fast and help the so called "surge". For my calibrated orifice I used one of the RED STRAWS from a brake cleaner can glued in something else that fit snug in the hose.

This just about eliminated my surge, not completely but almost. So when I have it set I just "rest" my foot on the peddle to keep it from backing off and it goes pretty smooth.

So basically any time you go bigger injectors, no matter the size or who makes them, or turn your pump up you will get CC surge.


Aaron

 

Interesting. My pump is currently maxed and my cc works flawlessly. I was under the impression that surging could occur even when the cruise was not in use, meaning its hard to keep a steady speed with a big injector. Even the gentleman at Scheids said some of the injectors do that. That's more what I meant when asking about surge, I don't want to be out on the road and constantly working to keep a steady speed. Does that make sense?

 

you really would not have to turn down the pump to accommodate the larger injectors. Just don't push the skinny pedal as far and drive by your gauges.

i can haul my 6500# camper with my set-up without a egt problem (the trans is a different story). I may not be able to go 85mph up all the hills but i can safely drive. I put in a valet switch and have not since hauled my camper. but with it installed i feel that i will have a lot more control over EGT's.

I have never heard of people having surging problems with larger injectors when there trucks are properly set up. Mine drives fine at 65 and i am sure there are many other guys out there with large injectors that don't have the problem either.

 

No surge or rough idle here. Just a little bit of haze.

You gotta have some really big injectors (or badly made ones) to get a bad idle.

 

Ya I wouldnt worry to much about poor running/bad idle with EDM's. There have been many people with custom sticks and I have never heard those issues. As Wanna stated I would expect those issues from a poor quality injector. I also have EDM's and have no issues.

 

ok so this helped me a lot kind of, i want 400 plus hp and the truck alone ways 12k welding truck and pulls a little(more steel and supplies and little cars,but soon to be a 5thwheel RV) im lookin at an industrial injection super phat 62/71/14 are 6x 16s too big or do i need the 6x14s or a phat 62/65/14 turbo.any help great full cause im tring to order the turbo friday, oh ya sorry i forgot the head is gettin ported and polished and oringed and decked and rebuilding the rest of motor

 

justagoodolboy talk to New Era Diesel. My EDM's came from him. I don't have any surge problems. My CC works perfectly.

Randy if it were mine. I would use the 62/71/14 and a set of 6.012's or 6.014's. Most likely the 14's.