93 W350 Gas to Diesel Swap
08-19-2016, 06:54 PM
#1
93 W350 Gas to Diesel Swap
Hello all,
I've got a 93 W350 with a blown gas 360 (5.9) motor and automatic trans. We're looking to swap a cummins in, but I know little about the cummins and dodge particularities. I've got quite a lot of general mechanic, swap, fab etc experience, but it's all been with the Ford idi diesel. I know there's a lot more involved then just the engine, and I'm confident I can get it done, but would like some input on exactly what will be needed and any known problem spots.
Plan is to get a doner truck for drivetrain and small parts.
Engine, trans, radiator, exhaust are obvious things. What else? Fuel system? Do you need to change the tank? I recall seeing folks do this on fords and needing to swap tanks, IIRC because gas tanks are galvanized and diesel not or vice versa - is this true on dodge too? Obviously the high pressure fuel pump (EFI) would have to go, but easy enough to fab or get a pickup tube assembly.
Any frame issues? Different motor mounts, cross member, etc? Driveline length?
Is the radiator support the same? Can the gas one be made to work easily? How much of a pain is it to swap? I know of Ford's it's totally different and you have to take the front sheet metal essentially all the way apart to swap. Is dodge the same? I'd also hopefully put an intercooler on it, so that's another consideration.
What else? The truck is already a dana 60 front and I assume heavy enough springs to handle the extra weight. Axles are 4.10, would rather 3.55 for a diesel but not a show stopper if I have a 47RH trans.
Trans would stay autmoatic. Any issues swapping the 47 in place of 46? Currently has a 205 T-case, any difference there? Also, can the 4wd 46 parts be used to convert a 47 from 2wd to 4? I'd likely rebuild the trans while it out, so if I could use a core 2wd 47 and the 4wd 46 to make a 4wd 47 that would be useful to know.
Will any of the parts off a 94+ fit? Engine and trans are the same I know, but wondering about all the other body parts, etc. Seems I'm finding quite a few 94-96 trucks that would be good doners but fewer 93-. Would also like a p pump engine too just cause I like it better than the ve.
I'm looking at parts rigs in New England, (truck is on the west coast) so it's important to have a good idea what parts I'll need and what I wolnt so I can evaluate rust damage and how much of a problem it will be.
Thanks,
~John
I've got a 93 W350 with a blown gas 360 (5.9) motor and automatic trans. We're looking to swap a cummins in, but I know little about the cummins and dodge particularities. I've got quite a lot of general mechanic, swap, fab etc experience, but it's all been with the Ford idi diesel. I know there's a lot more involved then just the engine, and I'm confident I can get it done, but would like some input on exactly what will be needed and any known problem spots.
Plan is to get a doner truck for drivetrain and small parts.
Engine, trans, radiator, exhaust are obvious things. What else? Fuel system? Do you need to change the tank? I recall seeing folks do this on fords and needing to swap tanks, IIRC because gas tanks are galvanized and diesel not or vice versa - is this true on dodge too? Obviously the high pressure fuel pump (EFI) would have to go, but easy enough to fab or get a pickup tube assembly.
Any frame issues? Different motor mounts, cross member, etc? Driveline length?
Is the radiator support the same? Can the gas one be made to work easily? How much of a pain is it to swap? I know of Ford's it's totally different and you have to take the front sheet metal essentially all the way apart to swap. Is dodge the same? I'd also hopefully put an intercooler on it, so that's another consideration.
What else? The truck is already a dana 60 front and I assume heavy enough springs to handle the extra weight. Axles are 4.10, would rather 3.55 for a diesel but not a show stopper if I have a 47RH trans.
Trans would stay autmoatic. Any issues swapping the 47 in place of 46? Currently has a 205 T-case, any difference there? Also, can the 4wd 46 parts be used to convert a 47 from 2wd to 4? I'd likely rebuild the trans while it out, so if I could use a core 2wd 47 and the 4wd 46 to make a 4wd 47 that would be useful to know.
Will any of the parts off a 94+ fit? Engine and trans are the same I know, but wondering about all the other body parts, etc. Seems I'm finding quite a few 94-96 trucks that would be good doners but fewer 93-. Would also like a p pump engine too just cause I like it better than the ve.
I'm looking at parts rigs in New England, (truck is on the west coast) so it's important to have a good idea what parts I'll need and what I wolnt so I can evaluate rust damage and how much of a problem it will be.
Thanks,
~John
08-19-2016, 08:33 PM
#2
Registered User
Engine mounts are unique to 89-93 diesels
your dana 60 and springs will be same as a diesel came with
radiator support is unique to diesels- holes for the intercooler and a additional brace. You can make anything work- just depends on how much time and money and skills you got. Can weld intercooler mounts in or fab them on a gasser support. easier to just find one. I know where a 92 is since you're in the northeast already
205 transfer case will work but only on an automatic0 splines are different for a manual tranny 205 vs a automatic 205
47rh will work but is a ton of work- at least 2 threads on the net/ 2 on the sticky about doing it. Case is unique to a diesel, as is convertor and several internal parts
frame heights vary but by 93 I bet they just threw the taller frames in to get rid of them. measure to be sure
your dana 60 and springs will be same as a diesel came with
radiator support is unique to diesels- holes for the intercooler and a additional brace. You can make anything work- just depends on how much time and money and skills you got. Can weld intercooler mounts in or fab them on a gasser support. easier to just find one. I know where a 92 is since you're in the northeast already
205 transfer case will work but only on an automatic0 splines are different for a manual tranny 205 vs a automatic 205
47rh will work but is a ton of work- at least 2 threads on the net/ 2 on the sticky about doing it. Case is unique to a diesel, as is convertor and several internal parts
frame heights vary but by 93 I bet they just threw the taller frames in to get rid of them. measure to be sure
08-19-2016, 09:15 PM
#3
Banned
Sounds like you need a 92 or 93 truck with an auto for a donor. It will be intercooled and have everything you need. Once you have a donor truck in your shop it will be easy to see what you need from it. You cannot use your gas auto trans you need the diesel version and yes the core supports just like the ford are different.
Their is almost nothing from a 94 and newer truck that you can use. I would stick with the ve injection pump also. You can use the diesel 47RH with your np205 but you will have to get torque convert lockup to function on your own.
You could read up on the crew cab cummins conversions guys have done as it is nearly the same swap your doing other than the wheelbase and a few minor other items.
Their is almost nothing from a 94 and newer truck that you can use. I would stick with the ve injection pump also. You can use the diesel 47RH with your np205 but you will have to get torque convert lockup to function on your own.
You could read up on the crew cab cummins conversions guys have done as it is nearly the same swap your doing other than the wheelbase and a few minor other items.
08-19-2016, 10:16 PM
#4
What I meant with engine mounts is if the bolt holes in the frame are any different. I assume the mounts themselves would be.
Why is the 47RH a ton of work? Is this not stock on the engine? Am I missing something?
Reason I'm trying to get some idea of what I'll need is because I'm thinking of buying a truck here (CT) with a rotten body since they seem cheap and using that for the donor. I want to have a good idea what parts I'll need though to make sure the stuff I need isn't rotten too. Would suck to get a truck and haul it 3000 miles only to get it in the shop and realize it's no good.
Any links to useful threads or even who posted them/title would be useful - I tried a few searches but didn't come up with anything really useful.
Why is the 47RH a ton of work? Is this not stock on the engine? Am I missing something?
Reason I'm trying to get some idea of what I'll need is because I'm thinking of buying a truck here (CT) with a rotten body since they seem cheap and using that for the donor. I want to have a good idea what parts I'll need though to make sure the stuff I need isn't rotten too. Would suck to get a truck and haul it 3000 miles only to get it in the shop and realize it's no good.
Any links to useful threads or even who posted them/title would be useful - I tried a few searches but didn't come up with anything really useful.
08-19-2016, 10:50 PM
#5
So looks like I've been confused on tranmissions - I thought the 47rh was simply the diesel version of the 46, didn't realize there was a diesel 46 and the difference was lockup.
08-20-2016, 06:52 AM
#6
Banned
Well things that rust out are items like the sheet metal, cooler lines, bumpers and sometimes frames. You will not be using any of those items from a rust bucket donor truck for the swap you are wanting to do. The one item that is tough to find in any 1st gen dodge is a wiring harness that hasn't been hacked to pieces. So I don't think you have to worry about much related to being rotten.
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sdmuleman (08-20-2016)
08-20-2016, 12:17 PM
#7
Ok, that helps a lot, thanks.
Wiring isn't a big problem, I can make a wiring harness if I have too, can't image there's too much on there being a mechanical diesel.
So on transmissions - does the 47RH use a hydraulic control for the overdrive and lockup with a solenoid lockout like the 46 OD or is it only going to go in and out electronically? What all inputs does the 2nd gen PCM need to work? Can't imagine it would need much more than TPS and a VSS of some sort, seems like it would be easy to just use the stock PCM for control so why is everyone using a toggle switch and saying it's hard to do?
Wiring isn't a big problem, I can make a wiring harness if I have too, can't image there's too much on there being a mechanical diesel.
So on transmissions - does the 47RH use a hydraulic control for the overdrive and lockup with a solenoid lockout like the 46 OD or is it only going to go in and out electronically? What all inputs does the 2nd gen PCM need to work? Can't imagine it would need much more than TPS and a VSS of some sort, seems like it would be easy to just use the stock PCM for control so why is everyone using a toggle switch and saying it's hard to do?
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