93 Dodge, won't start, no lights after key is turned to start position for a while
06-22-2014, 11:25 AM
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93 Dodge, won't start, no lights after key is turned to start position for a while
Hi this is my first time posting so please be gentle.
I want to say first off that this forum has been invaluable to myself and my father.
My Dad owns a 1993 D250 Cherry Red with a Canopy on the back and custom stacks going through the forward part of the Canopy. Very nicely done.
However, here is the problem, it will not start!
When the key is in the on position everything seems fine, then as you hit the key to turn it over nothing, here is where it gets weird, all the lights go out even the dome light! And they stay off for some time then come back say the next day and they work.
From doing research on the forums here and in others we thought maybe it was the headlight switch, which was already acting up. I replaced it but now I have no lights at all. I’m thinking I may have not installed the ground right. Sadly it came with no instructions and I did not take the whole area apart to try and fix it earlier.
Here is my idea of what it might be and I need to have some validation of my thinking here.
I think it’s the fusible link. Now as I understand it the Fusible link comes off the positive battery Terminal. Well I think because of a modification I mention below that might have broken it because of the amount of vibration the diesel gives off.
As a side note I do have a multi meter to check things and the tools to do most wiring jobs.
Thank you all for reading
Josh
Below is some history for those of you who might need some more background but I know we are all very busy and so I added this for those who might have the patience. Don’t feel obligated to read.
Now there is more I need to say first so that everyone knows what is going on.
A little background here, My Dad was a car dealer for years until he was involved in an accident. I worked in his shop and became his electrical guy. So we sort of know what we are doing. I say sort of because neither of us are experts nor would claim to be, but we have experience. However mine is very limited when it comes to Diesels.
Ok so my parents live in a coastal town, so we realize that salt could be a problem here. I live 1400 miles away in The San Diego area. A few months back I went to see my parents for a little vacation. Well they had some things for me to take back home.
However there was a problem the truck was having problems then too the battery cables were eroding away and would not keep a slid connection. Now time was limited as I had taken 2 weeks of from work and needed to get back quickly, plus 1400 miles you get the idea.
So I went to Napa ( a small town one) they did not have anything even close in size to what we needed. Well I improvised, using some hardware I purchased at Napa, I made an extension and a clean connection. boom we were running fired off perfectly.
1300 miles later, we pull over the fender wall is really hot, smelled like brakes to me but might have been electrical looking back on it, but hard to tell after coming out of the grapevine. We let it rest for about an hour. Now this was November just to add the atmosphere in there.
We drove to my place without incident. However, when we went to unload everything and had to turn on the lights they were not coming on like they should. Well we left it and came here to research the problem. Headlight switch id what was come up with, but before I could get it installed, my Transmission went out in my care. Here is where it gets worse I used to work overnights.
So my dad was still here with me (we’re trying to get our old business going again) and drove me to work in his truck a couple of times and so did a friend. Anyway we kind of hot wired the lights for just him taking me to work a couple of times. But one day the truck just did not start, and because of last my car and the expense of fixing it, we had to put the truck on the back burner working on it every third Sunday weekends, I’m basically working 2 jobs right now.
Now the situation has become such My dad needs to go home to my mom it’s been to long and my mom has some health problems and car problems and he needs to get up there to help her plus needs the truck for some jobs we got.
Again thank you for reading this. Please forgive it's length.
Josh
I want to say first off that this forum has been invaluable to myself and my father.
My Dad owns a 1993 D250 Cherry Red with a Canopy on the back and custom stacks going through the forward part of the Canopy. Very nicely done.
However, here is the problem, it will not start!
When the key is in the on position everything seems fine, then as you hit the key to turn it over nothing, here is where it gets weird, all the lights go out even the dome light! And they stay off for some time then come back say the next day and they work.
From doing research on the forums here and in others we thought maybe it was the headlight switch, which was already acting up. I replaced it but now I have no lights at all. I’m thinking I may have not installed the ground right. Sadly it came with no instructions and I did not take the whole area apart to try and fix it earlier.
Here is my idea of what it might be and I need to have some validation of my thinking here.
I think it’s the fusible link. Now as I understand it the Fusible link comes off the positive battery Terminal. Well I think because of a modification I mention below that might have broken it because of the amount of vibration the diesel gives off.
As a side note I do have a multi meter to check things and the tools to do most wiring jobs.
Thank you all for reading
Josh
Below is some history for those of you who might need some more background but I know we are all very busy and so I added this for those who might have the patience. Don’t feel obligated to read.
Now there is more I need to say first so that everyone knows what is going on.
A little background here, My Dad was a car dealer for years until he was involved in an accident. I worked in his shop and became his electrical guy. So we sort of know what we are doing. I say sort of because neither of us are experts nor would claim to be, but we have experience. However mine is very limited when it comes to Diesels.
Ok so my parents live in a coastal town, so we realize that salt could be a problem here. I live 1400 miles away in The San Diego area. A few months back I went to see my parents for a little vacation. Well they had some things for me to take back home.
However there was a problem the truck was having problems then too the battery cables were eroding away and would not keep a slid connection. Now time was limited as I had taken 2 weeks of from work and needed to get back quickly, plus 1400 miles you get the idea.
So I went to Napa ( a small town one) they did not have anything even close in size to what we needed. Well I improvised, using some hardware I purchased at Napa, I made an extension and a clean connection. boom we were running fired off perfectly.
1300 miles later, we pull over the fender wall is really hot, smelled like brakes to me but might have been electrical looking back on it, but hard to tell after coming out of the grapevine. We let it rest for about an hour. Now this was November just to add the atmosphere in there.
We drove to my place without incident. However, when we went to unload everything and had to turn on the lights they were not coming on like they should. Well we left it and came here to research the problem. Headlight switch id what was come up with, but before I could get it installed, my Transmission went out in my care. Here is where it gets worse I used to work overnights.
So my dad was still here with me (we’re trying to get our old business going again) and drove me to work in his truck a couple of times and so did a friend. Anyway we kind of hot wired the lights for just him taking me to work a couple of times. But one day the truck just did not start, and because of last my car and the expense of fixing it, we had to put the truck on the back burner working on it every third Sunday weekends, I’m basically working 2 jobs right now.
Now the situation has become such My dad needs to go home to my mom it’s been to long and my mom has some health problems and car problems and he needs to get up there to help her plus needs the truck for some jobs we got.
Again thank you for reading this. Please forgive it's length.
Josh
Last edited by Josh Robbins; 06-22-2014 at 11:30 AM. Reason: hoping to add signiture
06-22-2014, 04:36 PM
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, welcome to the board. Search fusible link from posts by NJTman, he has a great thread on how to replace them with breakers...Mark
06-23-2014, 11:28 AM
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LOL yeah, it is but I live inland, no real coastal breeze for me sadly, more desert, it's kind of crazy how quickly the climate changes as you head east on the beach can be like 75 degrees and wonderful on the other side of the greater SD area and bam 100, especially if the Santa Ana's are blowing through.
Thanks very much for your reply, it feels good to know I'm heading in the right direction.
Today we are going to go get the supplies, I got a day off woot. Will keep in touch and let know what has happened.
Josh
Thanks very much for your reply, it feels good to know I'm heading in the right direction.
Today we are going to go get the supplies, I got a day off woot. Will keep in touch and let know what has happened.
Josh
06-23-2014, 10:36 PM
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If you unplug the ignition switch there should be power on 2 of the wires in the plug.
Didn't see anything about checking the battery. You sure you didn't fry it? What's your voltage read with everything off, and when trying to crank, checking across the posts with a digital meter?
Didn't see anything about checking the battery. You sure you didn't fry it? What's your voltage read with everything off, and when trying to crank, checking across the posts with a digital meter?
06-23-2014, 11:18 PM
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Thank you all hor your advice!!!
To Mark: I looked over NJTman's thread and I really liked it, unfortunately the stuff at the local boat shops I found were either too big or they were sold out, apparently there is some big boat shows and sports fishing events coming up. But because of what you sent me it led me to this: https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...t=fusible+link
It looks like it is a good fix, I know I will want to clean it up, but with my time constraints it should be a strong and clean fix.
to rrgrassi: that is definitely a concern I have, if replacing the FL does not work it is one of the next things on my list to check. along with the solenoid, I had read it was a possible problem. I want to get rid of this FL anyway it has already been repaired once about 8 years ago, I found this out today from my Dad, and apparently before my Dad got it someone else had replaced it once when you could still get the replacement. But I feel like this is the way to fix the root problem of a lot of his past electrical problems and to prevent many more of them coming up at a latet date.
to NE frmhnd: The battery is good, Just purchased it has maybe 60 hours on it so far and I have ran it on a meter. Also while testing it. with all the problems we have had it was my first thought. Thank you for mentioning it because I could have totally spaced it.
I went through the grounds a couple months ago but am definitely going to go through again just to be on the safe side, I really agree it is a possibility.
well today I got most of the parts to do the FL replace I had to order the bigger fuse so I am waiting on that hopefully in 2 to 3 days and I will have it. in the mean time I can start working on it. I was able to get almost all of the hardware, wire and connectors right at home depot. Very good deal and the wire is a very nice quality. I work on computers as one of my jobs and often time the wires feel thin and cheap, it will be nice to do some work with some larger wire.
Thank you all for your help. it is great to have knowledgeable people to brainstorm this, kind of making a check and balance for me. Thanks
Josh
It looks like it is a good fix, I know I will want to clean it up, but with my time constraints it should be a strong and clean fix.
to rrgrassi: that is definitely a concern I have, if replacing the FL does not work it is one of the next things on my list to check. along with the solenoid, I had read it was a possible problem. I want to get rid of this FL anyway it has already been repaired once about 8 years ago, I found this out today from my Dad, and apparently before my Dad got it someone else had replaced it once when you could still get the replacement. But I feel like this is the way to fix the root problem of a lot of his past electrical problems and to prevent many more of them coming up at a latet date.
to NE frmhnd: The battery is good, Just purchased it has maybe 60 hours on it so far and I have ran it on a meter. Also while testing it. with all the problems we have had it was my first thought. Thank you for mentioning it because I could have totally spaced it.
I went through the grounds a couple months ago but am definitely going to go through again just to be on the safe side, I really agree it is a possibility.
well today I got most of the parts to do the FL replace I had to order the bigger fuse so I am waiting on that hopefully in 2 to 3 days and I will have it. in the mean time I can start working on it. I was able to get almost all of the hardware, wire and connectors right at home depot. Very good deal and the wire is a very nice quality. I work on computers as one of my jobs and often time the wires feel thin and cheap, it will be nice to do some work with some larger wire.
Thank you all for your help. it is great to have knowledgeable people to brainstorm this, kind of making a check and balance for me. Thanks
Josh
Last edited by Josh Robbins; 06-23-2014 at 11:19 PM. Reason: was not formatted right.
07-09-2014, 06:22 PM
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Update
OK so a quick update, On Monday I finally received my parts. must have been the holidays. Anyway I worked yesterday and did not get a chance until about 2 hours ago to work on it. had spent some last night prepping the replacement for the FLs.
so here is what happened I bring the battery out as I went a head and and yesterday pulled it out of the truck to charge it, I put the battery back in and was just checking basic connections, seeing if any abnormal draw was on the battery (there was not) and I look up and the light under the hood is on, well that light has not been working this entire time so I start rechecking everything, I had my new meter with me, (old one just broke, Teach me to loan it out) new meter has the fine tips as I need those for checking circuit broads, old meter had the alligator clips.
Well the FLs have normal currant and good resistance. so I decided to check what else is working. I go into the cab and the buzzer is going off, I go to the headlight switch and it is turned on, this was something I had repaired as well, but must have forgot to fully push in. the driving lights all came on but no headlights, so I thing pull the multi-switch and everything buzzer and all including the under the hood light all off. So I do more checking, I go to the fuse box and check that everything has power, check there is power.
I tried the ignition and get a buzz in the on position, but everything in the dash goes out including buzzer when try to turn it over. but 10 min. later the lights are back and the buzzer but only for the ignition on position.
I didn't have time to go check the ignition and the multi-switch as I have to head to next job here in a bit, but it did give me an idea I think on where to look.
Does it seem I am on the right path or is this still a possible FLs issue? I'm tempted to still replace just to try to eliminate the problem.
Thanks again for all help!!!!!
Josh
P.S. I got a copy of the different pages of the manual for the wiring about 135 pages for the 93 Dodges, I just got to put them in correct order. once I get that done where would be an appropriate place for a link or a dl for those who might need it. I want to contribute as a thank you to this site.
so here is what happened I bring the battery out as I went a head and and yesterday pulled it out of the truck to charge it, I put the battery back in and was just checking basic connections, seeing if any abnormal draw was on the battery (there was not) and I look up and the light under the hood is on, well that light has not been working this entire time so I start rechecking everything, I had my new meter with me, (old one just broke, Teach me to loan it out) new meter has the fine tips as I need those for checking circuit broads, old meter had the alligator clips.
Well the FLs have normal currant and good resistance. so I decided to check what else is working. I go into the cab and the buzzer is going off, I go to the headlight switch and it is turned on, this was something I had repaired as well, but must have forgot to fully push in. the driving lights all came on but no headlights, so I thing pull the multi-switch and everything buzzer and all including the under the hood light all off. So I do more checking, I go to the fuse box and check that everything has power, check there is power.
I tried the ignition and get a buzz in the on position, but everything in the dash goes out including buzzer when try to turn it over. but 10 min. later the lights are back and the buzzer but only for the ignition on position.
I didn't have time to go check the ignition and the multi-switch as I have to head to next job here in a bit, but it did give me an idea I think on where to look.
Does it seem I am on the right path or is this still a possible FLs issue? I'm tempted to still replace just to try to eliminate the problem.
Thanks again for all help!!!!!
Josh
P.S. I got a copy of the different pages of the manual for the wiring about 135 pages for the 93 Dodges, I just got to put them in correct order. once I get that done where would be an appropriate place for a link or a dl for those who might need it. I want to contribute as a thank you to this site.
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07-09-2014, 11:36 PM
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Thanks j_martin, I'm still learning about Diesel electrical systems, and I really have appreciated your posts, and I know you know more about this than I do so it makes me curious, what is it that makes you think it's the battery? the other reason I ask is we replaced the battery just a few months ago it has less than 2k miles of actual use on it. thankfully still well under warranty at Napa, And what would cause another battery to go dead? just Defective or could a short cause it? It held a charge for the last week between 12.48 to 12.42 volts. Again thank you!! you guys are awesome.
07-10-2014, 02:05 AM
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Thanks j_martin, I'm still learning about Diesel electrical systems, and I really have appreciated your posts, and I know you know more about this than I do so it makes me curious, what is it that makes you think it's the battery? the other reason I ask is we replaced the battery just a few months ago it has less than 2k miles of actual use on it. thankfully still well under warranty at Napa, And what would cause another battery to go dead? just Defective or could a short cause it? It held a charge for the last week between 12.48 to 12.42 volts. Again thank you!! you guys are awesome.
07-10-2014, 02:27 AM
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Either your battery is bad, bad cell or bad internal connector or a bad end on the battery cables.
The battery will provide enough current to sound the buzzer or run some lights but as soon as the starter call a load the weak connection will open.
Have you tried starting the truck with a good jumper battery and a good set of cables?
Good cables = at least 2-gauge welding cable.
Sometimes a bad connection can repair itself with an internal arc and re fuse the connection.
Jim
The battery will provide enough current to sound the buzzer or run some lights but as soon as the starter call a load the weak connection will open.
Have you tried starting the truck with a good jumper battery and a good set of cables?
Good cables = at least 2-gauge welding cable.
Sometimes a bad connection can repair itself with an internal arc and re fuse the connection.
Jim
07-10-2014, 08:27 AM
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Thanks j_martin, I'm still learning about Diesel electrical systems, and I really have appreciated your posts, and I know you know more about this than I do so it makes me curious, what is it that makes you think it's the battery? the other reason I ask is we replaced the battery just a few months ago it has less than 2k miles of actual use on it. thankfully still well under warranty at Napa, And what would cause another battery to go dead? just Defective or could a short cause it? It held a charge for the last week between 12.48 to 12.42 volts. Again thank you!! you guys are awesome.
I tried the ignition and get a buzz in the on position, but everything in the dash goes out including buzzer when try to turn it over. but 10 min. later the lights are back and the buzzer but only for the ignition on position.
07-10-2014, 03:06 PM
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Thanks guys for helping me understand. I am on break now so don't have time to go do it, as soon as I can I will go take it to Napa and get it checked. if that does not work I got a friend who has 0-1 welding wire and we can make some new cables from that. You guys rock.
Please forgive my newbieness when it comes to Diesels.
Again thanks!!!
Josh
Please forgive my newbieness when it comes to Diesels.
Again thanks!!!
Josh
07-10-2014, 05:20 PM
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Josh,
Here are the jumper cables I carry in my truck, with my batteries and alternator, I can start anything.
https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...s-t294240.html
BTW the battery cables on our trucks should be 3/0 with 2/0 at the very least.
1/0 will work but would show as an excessive volt drop if you use your grid heaters
Importance of a good ground.
https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...d-t297761.html
Jim
Here are the jumper cables I carry in my truck, with my batteries and alternator, I can start anything.
https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...s-t294240.html
BTW the battery cables on our trucks should be 3/0 with 2/0 at the very least.
1/0 will work but would show as an excessive volt drop if you use your grid heaters
Importance of a good ground.
https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...d-t297761.html
Jim