91 1/2 Bosch VE Injection Pump Runaway
08-26-2008, 11:08 AM
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91 1/2 Bosch VE Injection Pump Runaway
My Cummins (with 5 speed Getrag) was running great when I shut it down for lunch. When I started it up, it went into full throttle mode requiring immediate shutdown. The issue is internal to the pump, not throttle linkage. All external adjustment screws are locked down as they should be. The emergency shut down lever works to shut off the pump. The pump had been resealed by an injection shop about 1 year ago. Not knowing exactly how the pump works, I origonally thought that maybe the governor spring had broken.
I decided to pull the pump apart and install my 3200 rpm spring and at the same time determine what may have gone wrong with the pump as well as learn some things about how the pump. I determined that a broken gov spring would most likely cause the engine to not run a way, rather cause either idle or die due to lack of fuel. THe force generated by the weights is counterd by the spring tension of the governor spring and throttle position.When I got the top off the pump, it looked good inside with no obvious issues. I did notice that the governor flyweights moved fine but the movement of the sleeve controlled by the flyweights didn't seem as smooth as I thought it should be. However moving the weights in and out a few times seemed to clear up that issue. It may have NOT been an issue of smoothness, rather moving the flyweights may have been a little hard because of hydraulic pressure of changing the position of the sleeve. I sucked out the diesel in the pump and looked at the rest of the mechanism below but couldn't see any issues. I ran a magnet around inside the pump but didn't find any filings or such which would indicate unusual wear. I put the pump back together with the 3200 spring. The engine fire right up but still had the same issue of running wide open. So I have some questions.
1. Obviously others have had this issue as some have installed in-the-cab cable emergency shut-offs. Is there another spring that may have broken that is accessed through the fuel distribution head that could cause this issue?
2. Could this be caused by some fuel debris or something worn in the pump?
3. The local injection shops want $1000 to rebuild the pump. Does anyone know of a less costly fix?
4. If I'm going to spend $1000 for a rebuild, does buying a NEW VE pump make sense or is there an upgrade to a later model pump or is that cost prohibitive because of other changes that might be required? I've had many VW diesels utilizing the Bosch pump but have never experienced this issue before.
5. I'm planning on bumping the power/torque (currently stock) up to around 250/ (90hp over stock) as I'm going to be pulling heavy equipment (1 ton dually) (I know about the NV 4500 conversion) so is this a good time to be thinking about a pump upgrade anyway?
Your responces are appreciated!
swade
Dodge Cummins with lots of VW diesel powered autos (TDI Samurai), 3 kubotas, dozer, excavator
I decided to pull the pump apart and install my 3200 rpm spring and at the same time determine what may have gone wrong with the pump as well as learn some things about how the pump. I determined that a broken gov spring would most likely cause the engine to not run a way, rather cause either idle or die due to lack of fuel. THe force generated by the weights is counterd by the spring tension of the governor spring and throttle position.When I got the top off the pump, it looked good inside with no obvious issues. I did notice that the governor flyweights moved fine but the movement of the sleeve controlled by the flyweights didn't seem as smooth as I thought it should be. However moving the weights in and out a few times seemed to clear up that issue. It may have NOT been an issue of smoothness, rather moving the flyweights may have been a little hard because of hydraulic pressure of changing the position of the sleeve. I sucked out the diesel in the pump and looked at the rest of the mechanism below but couldn't see any issues. I ran a magnet around inside the pump but didn't find any filings or such which would indicate unusual wear. I put the pump back together with the 3200 spring. The engine fire right up but still had the same issue of running wide open. So I have some questions.
1. Obviously others have had this issue as some have installed in-the-cab cable emergency shut-offs. Is there another spring that may have broken that is accessed through the fuel distribution head that could cause this issue?
2. Could this be caused by some fuel debris or something worn in the pump?
3. The local injection shops want $1000 to rebuild the pump. Does anyone know of a less costly fix?
4. If I'm going to spend $1000 for a rebuild, does buying a NEW VE pump make sense or is there an upgrade to a later model pump or is that cost prohibitive because of other changes that might be required? I've had many VW diesels utilizing the Bosch pump but have never experienced this issue before.
5. I'm planning on bumping the power/torque (currently stock) up to around 250/ (90hp over stock) as I'm going to be pulling heavy equipment (1 ton dually) (I know about the NV 4500 conversion) so is this a good time to be thinking about a pump upgrade anyway?
Your responces are appreciated!
swade
Dodge Cummins with lots of VW diesel powered autos (TDI Samurai), 3 kubotas, dozer, excavator
08-26-2008, 12:58 PM
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not sure if you have read threw the stickies that a lot of the members here put together:
https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...d.php?t=102027
if you are thinking about upgrading go tot he "performance" section in there and read up on Piston pump upgrade, or P-pump..
also there is some good info on rebuilding the VE pump in there also..
hope these help ya some.
https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...d.php?t=102027
if you are thinking about upgrading go tot he "performance" section in there and read up on Piston pump upgrade, or P-pump..
also there is some good info on rebuilding the VE pump in there also..
hope these help ya some.
08-26-2008, 02:15 PM
#3
Registered User
My Cummins (with 5 speed Getrag) was running great when I shut it down for lunch. When I started it up, it went into full throttle mode requiring immediate shutdown. The issue is internal to the pump, not throttle linkage. All external adjustment screws are locked down as they should be. The emergency shut down lever works to shut off the pump. The pump had been resealed by an injection shop about 1 year ago. Not knowing exactly how the pump works, I origonally thought that maybe the governor spring had broken.
I decided to pull the pump apart and install my 3200 rpm spring and at the same time determine what may have gone wrong with the pump as well as learn some things about how the pump. I determined that a broken gov spring would most likely cause the engine to not run a way, rather cause either idle or die due to lack of fuel. THe force generated by the weights is counterd by the spring tension of the governor spring and throttle position.When I got the top off the pump, it looked good inside with no obvious issues. I did notice that the governor flyweights moved fine but the movement of the sleeve controlled by the flyweights didn't seem as smooth as I thought it should be. However moving the weights in and out a few times seemed to clear up that issue. It may have NOT been an issue of smoothness, rather moving the flyweights may have been a little hard because of hydraulic pressure of changing the position of the sleeve. I sucked out the diesel in the pump and looked at the rest of the mechanism below but couldn't see any issues. I ran a magnet around inside the pump but didn't find any filings or such which would indicate unusual wear. I put the pump back together with the 3200 spring. The engine fire right up but still had the same issue of running wide open. So I have some questions.
1. Obviously others have had this issue as some have installed in-the-cab cable emergency shut-offs. Is there another spring that may have broken that is accessed through the fuel distribution head that could cause this issue?
2. Could this be caused by some fuel debris or something worn in the pump?
3. The local injection shops want $1000 to rebuild the pump. Does anyone know of a less costly fix?
4. If I'm going to spend $1000 for a rebuild, does buying a NEW VE pump make sense or is there an upgrade to a later model pump or is that cost prohibitive because of other changes that might be required? I've had many VW diesels utilizing the Bosch pump but have never experienced this issue before.
5. I'm planning on bumping the power/torque (currently stock) up to around 250/ (90hp over stock) as I'm going to be pulling heavy equipment (1 ton dually) (I know about the NV 4500 conversion) so is this a good time to be thinking about a pump upgrade anyway?
Your responces are appreciated!
swade
Dodge Cummins with lots of VW diesel powered autos (TDI Samurai), 3 kubotas, dozer, excavator
I decided to pull the pump apart and install my 3200 rpm spring and at the same time determine what may have gone wrong with the pump as well as learn some things about how the pump. I determined that a broken gov spring would most likely cause the engine to not run a way, rather cause either idle or die due to lack of fuel. THe force generated by the weights is counterd by the spring tension of the governor spring and throttle position.When I got the top off the pump, it looked good inside with no obvious issues. I did notice that the governor flyweights moved fine but the movement of the sleeve controlled by the flyweights didn't seem as smooth as I thought it should be. However moving the weights in and out a few times seemed to clear up that issue. It may have NOT been an issue of smoothness, rather moving the flyweights may have been a little hard because of hydraulic pressure of changing the position of the sleeve. I sucked out the diesel in the pump and looked at the rest of the mechanism below but couldn't see any issues. I ran a magnet around inside the pump but didn't find any filings or such which would indicate unusual wear. I put the pump back together with the 3200 spring. The engine fire right up but still had the same issue of running wide open. So I have some questions.
1. Obviously others have had this issue as some have installed in-the-cab cable emergency shut-offs. Is there another spring that may have broken that is accessed through the fuel distribution head that could cause this issue?
2. Could this be caused by some fuel debris or something worn in the pump?
3. The local injection shops want $1000 to rebuild the pump. Does anyone know of a less costly fix?
4. If I'm going to spend $1000 for a rebuild, does buying a NEW VE pump make sense or is there an upgrade to a later model pump or is that cost prohibitive because of other changes that might be required? I've had many VW diesels utilizing the Bosch pump but have never experienced this issue before.
5. I'm planning on bumping the power/torque (currently stock) up to around 250/ (90hp over stock) as I'm going to be pulling heavy equipment (1 ton dually) (I know about the NV 4500 conversion) so is this a good time to be thinking about a pump upgrade anyway?
Your responces are appreciated!
swade
Dodge Cummins with lots of VW diesel powered autos (TDI Samurai), 3 kubotas, dozer, excavator
08-26-2008, 02:42 PM
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Thanks for the comments. I had earlier checked with Dodge and found out that in 94 the truck had recall work done on the pump and that there are currenlty no recalls on the truck. That evidently was the only recall on the truck. I think I will call Dodge service or Dodge Corporate to see if there is something I can get them to do.
swade
swade
08-26-2008, 04:48 PM
#5
Adminstrator-ess
You are correct that a broken gov. spring will just kill the engine.
It's time for a rebuild, the governor is worn out. The only new VE pumps I know of come from China, I think I'd rather take my chances with a rebuilt German pump.
There's nothing special about the "performance" pumps some folks are selling. They are just set to deliver more fuel than stock - which you can do yourself.
It's time for a rebuild, the governor is worn out. The only new VE pumps I know of come from China, I think I'd rather take my chances with a rebuilt German pump.
There's nothing special about the "performance" pumps some folks are selling. They are just set to deliver more fuel than stock - which you can do yourself.
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