In my last thread I made I thought maybe it was bad fuel was the reason my truck suddenly won't start.
I went through everything I could to try and trace the problem. Have checked for leaking lines but no evidence of that. Replaced fuel filter and bled off as much air as I could.
It is my understanding that the lift pump pressurizes the lines going to the injector pump. If there is no pressure and no matter how much I crank the starter with gas fumes smothering the air tube, could it be a dead lift pump. I've read that if its going bad you can hear a ticking noise but the thing won't start to be able to.
Running out of time and thinking of trying a new LP that I can have overnited. Also is there any way to manually by pass the LP? just to get it running
Could it be that there is still air in lines? because I've turned it over a hundred times and mashed primer bulb 1000.

 

The injection pump will suck fuel from the tank on it's own without the lift pump as long as it hasn't lost prime by air. It will be noticeably lacking on power though.

 

The LP is very reliable on these trucks. Starting issues are usually related to an air leak. If there is an air leak, you will have a terrible time bleeding the system to get it started. I had one where the air leak was large enough that I was sucking more air in by pumping the primer bulb. If you have access to an air compressor, I would try pressuring the fuel tank. Just stick the air hose in the tank with the regulator turned down pretty far and wrap a rag around it so that you can build some pressure in the tank. I would start by doing this with the bleeder screw on the top of the fuel filter cracked and wait until it is full. Once it starts spraying fuel, have someone crank the truck while maintaining pressure in the tank.

Even a very small air leak can make these trucks almost impossible to start. If the above method succeeds in starting it, then you need to look at where your leak is whether it be in the fuel lines, fuel heater, sending unit(less likely), or LP(very unlikely).

Good luck.

 

Infidel,
The symptoms that my truck experienced when the lift pump went bad was that the engine had to turn and turn and turn until it struggled to life. Seemed to run okay once it got going, but it was a ***** to start.
I bought the new pump at the Cummins dealer for about half of what the Dodge ******* wanted. The parts guy at Cummins said that they usually last about 80,000 miles.
I read a thread somewhere (maybe here) where some guy removed the banjo bolt on the clean side of the pump, drilled and tapped it so that a pressure guage could be attached so as to determine pressure from the lift pump.
Good luck Amigo!

Bananas!

 

I think that the 80,000 miles that you list is for the electric pump on the 24v motors. The pump on the 12v motors is mechanical and there is very little that can go wrong with it.

As far as a fuel pressure gauge goes, you can pull the banjo bolt on the inlet to the injection pump and drill and tap it. You either need to put a snubber or a needle valve in their or your gauge will go nuts.

 

Dartmouth 12,

Nope, the 80,000 mile figure that I quoted was for my 1996 12V as told to me by the parts man at the Cummins dealership.

Bananas!

 

What a lousy day...
talking to mechanics around here is actually a better way to answer your own questions, not to get answers.
Might be visitiing one tomorrow though.
Changed lift pump, what a pain in the neck. Everything that has ever gone wrong with this truck involves pulling the starter. Old LP didn't look that bad.
Cleaned out prefilter screen, did everything, pumped primer bulb forever, tried to do all you guys have suggested and I thank you.
STill won't crank.
Same as before.
As I stood there priming the new LP and through everything I did I kept my ears open and tried to hear the "whistling" of the overflow valve. Nothing but dead silence. Symptom of bad overflow valve?
And speaking of hearing things, when I got in and tried to start the truck I pumped the gas pedal, trying to feather it back to life. When I mash the pedal I hear a SQUEAK, like a chew toy, every time. Does this sound like it may be producing the air leak?
After loads of work, I'm about to tow it in and have some guy say I need a new injectioin pump and a square thingy and new fuel lines and glitter and charge me $5K.
Are the 3rd gen. trucks any more reliable or easier to diagnose because they've started getting cheaper.

 

Maybe it's unusual but both my trucks have the stock lift pumps at almost 250k each.
I've replaced maybe a dozen lift pumps, all but one were due to a broken spring on the actuator that caused the pump to tick, still pumped fuel though.
The one that didn't have a broken spring had a failed check valve. Probably a $1 part that isn't availible separately.

 

Are you getting any fuel to the injectors? You can tell either by cracking injection lines or looking to see if there is black smoke in the exhaust as you crank. If you are getting some fuel, I would suspect that you are still moving a lot of air and have an air leak which is allowing air to be pumped in by the vacuum created by the LP.

One thing that people will often do with machinery if they can't figure out whether it is an IP problem or a fuel leak is to run the engine off a different fuel source like a gallon pail. This is a real pain because it involves bleeding the lines but if the bucket is higher than the IP, you can siphon it. While this is not a fix of any form, if the truck won't run with a known good fuel source, it starts to hint at IP or other problems.

 

If you've already done this forgive me but have you tried cranking it with the injector lines cracked open to help release the air? We had an old 2 ton ford Bucket truck with a B series cummins in it and it would crank all day and never start no matter how much you pumped the primer ball but about 5 seconds into cranking it with one of the injector lines cracked shed bust off like a brand new one and would start all day after that but after sitting overnight no start. I never did find the air leak. Just my .02

 

That would be my next thing to check. If you want to pull it apart, while you have the banjo bolt out, tap it 1/8" NPT for a pressure gauge.

Don't feel bad about the mechanics, they are the same here. I would advise you to read this forum, and learn the search feature, it is your best source of information I have ever found.

Somewhere lurking around these cyberbits is your answer.

I have to say again, I do not believe it is an issue of a bad IP....... And I do not see the new CR trucks as being easier to work on.

 

Thanks
After a long night covered in black slime, I decided to send it in to a local mechanic today who sponsors our little league, so he should at least try to do good as I'll be seeing them at the ballfield in spring.
I did try cracking an injector (4th back from front) and cranking key. Sputtered a little and some fuel did come out of the line, but not a geyser or anything.
At the risk of killing battery (again), shut the hood and put it on rollback.
Guy popped hood as soon as I got there (good) and while he poked around w/ flashlight I gave him the rundown on what I've done and all the expert advice I've garnered from this glorious site.
"Sounds like a bad IP" he said. I told him I hadn't checked the overflow valve yet and I thought air may well be getting sucked into the lines. I told him I don't care if it is EVERYTHING else BUT the Ip.
I'm waiting by the phone a.w.s. and fighting the urge to go down there and stare at them while they try to work. It's in his hands now. I just hope he checks it all out before blaming the injection pump.
I'll let you know tonight what he allows.

 

I've got both the 12V are the way to go there is a certain amount of pride in turning wrenches to get decent HP numbers out of a 12V any jerk with enough money can plug a box in. The 12V is definitely easier to work on as well Just my .02

 

BigRed, any word yet?

The more I think about it, the less I think it is an overflow problem, when pumping the LP, did it ever feel like you were catching fuel? On mine, I can feel a slight, but very slight difference when it starts pumping fuel.

Perhaps something is plugging up you strainer in the tank.........

 

Ok so last post (thurs.) I wrote that I had brought it into the "mechanic". Then I got a call 90 mins. later saying that his wife was at hospital, he couldn't get to it till today (Fri.). Then this morning I get a call that HE is in hospital and will not be able to look at it till monday.

I understand people get sick but the other 3 bozos at the shop apparently just do oil changes or something.
Sounding like another $40/50 for wrecker to get it back home (2 miles). At least I can work on it this weekend.
No I didn't feel any difference in primer bulb at all and that is what started to concern me about the i.p. but that's dumb because if the lift pump is getting little/no fuel, then it's back toward the tank side (right?).
May bite the bullet and get my x-wifes new husband (ase certified) to help me drop the tank and/or attempt above posted "pail test" and fix me up a guage. Hooray weekend!

I'll let yall know and thanks so much for all of your help/support keeping me from losing it and I think we're getting closer to tracking this problem down.