Seems like she should have more power
06-28-2007, 11:18 PM
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Seems like she should have more power
I am new to this forum and am the proud owner of a recently acquired ’96 Dodge 4WD dually with 166,000 miles on the odometer. I bought it because my Ford V6 was way too gutless to pull my new travel trailer. (I was one of those gullible idiots who believed the RV salesman when he said my F150 would get the job done fine). I probably would have preferred a ¾ ton diesel over the 1 ton dually (2 less tires to buy when the time comes), but the price on this rig was right, and it seemed like a pretty good truck. (I don’t have many wheelbarrows full of money lying around to buy a newer one).
This is my first experience with a diesel. I understand the principles of operation, but have no practical experience.
The body and interior are in pretty good shape, but there are some small nuances with the truck; like the driver’s electric door doesn’t lock, the ABS light & brake light comes on in a pair for no reason about every other time I drive the truck, the cruise control doesn’t work, the rear shocks are junk, and the aftermarket (I think) trans oil temp indicator only works part time. But, I only paid a little over $6k for this truck, so I am not complaining at all. I will fix those as I have time and I figure out what to do.
The engine and drive train create some bigger questions for me though.
First, the engine sounds great. It runs smooth, no funny noises, no blow by, etc. And it gets good gas mileage (about 20 mpg empty, 15 pulling my 5,000lb trailer at highway speeds). But it seems to have less power than I expected. With no load, it just cruises at highway speed seemingly just above an idle. No complaints at all. But with the trailer behind, it slows appreciably on hills. Going down the freeway at 65 mph, it will slow to 55 or 50mph on an average, sizable uphill. That don’t seem right to me. It feels as if the gas pedal runs out of travel (Although I doubt that is the problem). The engine doesn’t feel like it is working THAT hard. The gas mileage seems OK despite the perceived lack of power. (note: It has a 3.5 rear end ratio). It just doesn’t seem to develop torque under load. Even downshifting doesn’t help much, if any. The rpms go up, but the speed stays about the same. Am I correct in assuming my truck should have more guts? It isn’t that big of camp trailer that I am pulling (19 foot, 4500 lb empty).
It has been suggested by a friend that I may have low fuel pressure. Is that a reasonable place to start? Any other ideas?
I think the auto trans has some problems too. It shifts a bit funny (It gains seemingly a few too many revs in the moment between gears. Not a big deal, but I think not right). Also, it doesn’t downshift from OD on its own when lugging a load up a hill. (Not that it helps that much to downshift). Seemingly it should downshift on its own. I think I will take it to a transmission shop for those items.
One other thing; It acts like it has no thermostat. The engine never gets even half way between the 140 and 190F marks, even when towing up a long hill. It usually hovers around 140F. That, I assume is not normal either. (I don’t think it is the sending unit. When you pop the hood after a drive; it is pretty cool under there.) Could that be part of my problem? Where is the thermostat on this engine? It isn’t obvious, or I would check it. Usually they are on the infeed end (the side connected to the engine) of the top hose.
Any other obvious things for me to look at?
Is their an affordable repair manual you might recommend for this truck?
Hope these questions aren’t too bonehead. Again, diesels are totally new to me, but I am looking forward to getting to know them.
Thanks for any help.
Cougsfan
This is my first experience with a diesel. I understand the principles of operation, but have no practical experience.
The body and interior are in pretty good shape, but there are some small nuances with the truck; like the driver’s electric door doesn’t lock, the ABS light & brake light comes on in a pair for no reason about every other time I drive the truck, the cruise control doesn’t work, the rear shocks are junk, and the aftermarket (I think) trans oil temp indicator only works part time. But, I only paid a little over $6k for this truck, so I am not complaining at all. I will fix those as I have time and I figure out what to do.
The engine and drive train create some bigger questions for me though.
First, the engine sounds great. It runs smooth, no funny noises, no blow by, etc. And it gets good gas mileage (about 20 mpg empty, 15 pulling my 5,000lb trailer at highway speeds). But it seems to have less power than I expected. With no load, it just cruises at highway speed seemingly just above an idle. No complaints at all. But with the trailer behind, it slows appreciably on hills. Going down the freeway at 65 mph, it will slow to 55 or 50mph on an average, sizable uphill. That don’t seem right to me. It feels as if the gas pedal runs out of travel (Although I doubt that is the problem). The engine doesn’t feel like it is working THAT hard. The gas mileage seems OK despite the perceived lack of power. (note: It has a 3.5 rear end ratio). It just doesn’t seem to develop torque under load. Even downshifting doesn’t help much, if any. The rpms go up, but the speed stays about the same. Am I correct in assuming my truck should have more guts? It isn’t that big of camp trailer that I am pulling (19 foot, 4500 lb empty).
It has been suggested by a friend that I may have low fuel pressure. Is that a reasonable place to start? Any other ideas?
I think the auto trans has some problems too. It shifts a bit funny (It gains seemingly a few too many revs in the moment between gears. Not a big deal, but I think not right). Also, it doesn’t downshift from OD on its own when lugging a load up a hill. (Not that it helps that much to downshift). Seemingly it should downshift on its own. I think I will take it to a transmission shop for those items.
One other thing; It acts like it has no thermostat. The engine never gets even half way between the 140 and 190F marks, even when towing up a long hill. It usually hovers around 140F. That, I assume is not normal either. (I don’t think it is the sending unit. When you pop the hood after a drive; it is pretty cool under there.) Could that be part of my problem? Where is the thermostat on this engine? It isn’t obvious, or I would check it. Usually they are on the infeed end (the side connected to the engine) of the top hose.
Any other obvious things for me to look at?
Is their an affordable repair manual you might recommend for this truck?
Hope these questions aren’t too bonehead. Again, diesels are totally new to me, but I am looking forward to getting to know them.
Thanks for any help.
Cougsfan
06-28-2007, 11:28 PM
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Your engine temperature gauge will never go anywhere near that, at least, in my experience. I have driven my truck 13 hours in 40 degree C weather, and my thermostat only went halfway up at most. The thing to watch out for in these trucks is egt's. Someone else will chime in with better info im sure.
06-28-2007, 11:33 PM
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I don't think the tranny is slipping, Bnold, maybe I didn't say it clear. It gains RPM and no speed when I downshift by depressing the OD button and it kicks out of Overdrive. That is kinda of what you'd expect it to do intially, then it should start gaining speed, but it stays right where it is , RPM and speed wise.
06-29-2007, 12:01 AM
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[QUOTE=Cougsfan;1575556]It gains RPM and no speed when I downshift by depressing the OD button and it kicks out of Overdrive. QUOTE]
The injection pump is set up to defuel at about 2200rpm, does it pull to about 2200 or so and then die off? Do a search on govoner springs.
The injection pump is set up to defuel at about 2200rpm, does it pull to about 2200 or so and then die off? Do a search on govoner springs.
06-29-2007, 10:44 AM
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yah them suckers don't have a very good gov setting stock. i put in the washer gsk mod and a couple other things and it's like a new truck when towing. my temp goes to 190 then hovers a second then goes back down to 140 then climbs back up then down and so on. the dodge manual says this is normal.
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06-29-2007, 11:21 AM
#8
If it's the stock auto, it will drive like a pig. I had a stock auto in mine. If u install a upgraded Torque converter and Valve body it will make a world of difference.
Also, do u have gauges? what kind of boost are u seeing, and what kind of EGT's are u seeing? There's endless ways to get power out of these cummins. The 12v's like we have also have free mods to get power. Search for "free 12v mods".
Your truck shouldn't even know 4500 lbs is behind it, I'd say a boost leak, but that would usually mean black smoke, high Egt's and low boost and power. Welcome to the best diesel forum, and once u do ur first power mod, it just won't stop, lol.
Also, do u have gauges? what kind of boost are u seeing, and what kind of EGT's are u seeing? There's endless ways to get power out of these cummins. The 12v's like we have also have free mods to get power. Search for "free 12v mods".
Your truck shouldn't even know 4500 lbs is behind it, I'd say a boost leak, but that would usually mean black smoke, high Egt's and low boost and power. Welcome to the best diesel forum, and once u do ur first power mod, it just won't stop, lol.
06-29-2007, 12:31 PM
#9
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As stated above
its stock, its a pig... Stock auto trans wont hold very well, but even for 4500 lbs? something is way wrong. As suggested, gauges should be the first step, timing the injection pump should come next, then a fuel plate, and governer springs. WIth those relatively inexpensive mods, its no joke, you will feel like you are in a different truck...
Far as an auto goes, a good TQ converter and valve body will take care of that.. a boost leak possibility? not likely in your case... But the most common spot to check for one is at the right IC boot, that will rub against the edge and could wear a hole in it....
as stated very easy to get lotsa power out of these trucks, im at 450 horses with a home modded pump....
its stock, its a pig... Stock auto trans wont hold very well, but even for 4500 lbs? something is way wrong. As suggested, gauges should be the first step, timing the injection pump should come next, then a fuel plate, and governer springs. WIth those relatively inexpensive mods, its no joke, you will feel like you are in a different truck...
Far as an auto goes, a good TQ converter and valve body will take care of that.. a boost leak possibility? not likely in your case... But the most common spot to check for one is at the right IC boot, that will rub against the edge and could wear a hole in it....
as stated very easy to get lotsa power out of these trucks, im at 450 horses with a home modded pump....
06-29-2007, 01:46 PM
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by your description it sounds like you're torque converter is never locking up. truck slowing down and rpms rising going up a hill is classic. are u getting lock-up?
06-29-2007, 02:19 PM
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I would install a GSK, 10 plate, TC lockup switch and be done with it...if thats what you want. That will give you an amazing improvement in HP, and the usability of the new HP.
06-29-2007, 03:38 PM
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Check the lift pump. It may be time to replace that. When I first bought mine the lift pump was dying, a Toyota Echo passed me on a hill and I was empty.
Checked the fuel pressure and it was down so I changed the LP and fuel filter.
Checked the fuel pressure and it was down so I changed the LP and fuel filter.
06-29-2007, 03:38 PM
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Wow! Thanks for all the feedback. What awesome people you all are!
The only non-stock guage it has is a transmission oil temp guage that only works part time. Sounds like I need to track down an EG temp and boost guages. Is a fuel pressure guage something to worry about, or is that something you hook up only during maintenace?
I have read up some on the govenor spring. It sounds inexpensive, easy to do but intimidating to those who don't know what they are doing (me), but that is what makes it fun. Timing the fuel pump and installing a fuel plate are things I don't even understand, so that will take some research.
Excuse my ignorance, but what is an IC boot? Also while I am exposing my profound ignorance, what is a GSK, 10 plate, TC lockup switch.
The transmission, in the straight terms that Txdiesel1007 used, is definately kind of a pig. It just doesn't feel good. The torque converter and valve body change sounds expensive and intimidating. You have to pull the tranny to do that, correct?
Again, I think think the torque converter is locking up just fine. It doesn't raise RPMs until I push the switch to kick it out of overdrive (it essentially downshifts). But then, as Buckshotram surmised, it reaches 2200 RPM, which is about 55 mph with the overdrive switch disengaged, and won't gain any more RPM's. (Sounds like the govenor spring issue).
I have a lot of research to do. My real problem now is not so much in knowing what to do, but in how to do it. I will search for parts on line, and read old threads and links this forum a lot. Any suggestions of where to shop?
I am looking forward to starting on the task of upgrading the truck. Should be fun!
Cougsfan
The only non-stock guage it has is a transmission oil temp guage that only works part time. Sounds like I need to track down an EG temp and boost guages. Is a fuel pressure guage something to worry about, or is that something you hook up only during maintenace?
I have read up some on the govenor spring. It sounds inexpensive, easy to do but intimidating to those who don't know what they are doing (me), but that is what makes it fun. Timing the fuel pump and installing a fuel plate are things I don't even understand, so that will take some research.
Excuse my ignorance, but what is an IC boot? Also while I am exposing my profound ignorance, what is a GSK, 10 plate, TC lockup switch.
The transmission, in the straight terms that Txdiesel1007 used, is definately kind of a pig. It just doesn't feel good. The torque converter and valve body change sounds expensive and intimidating. You have to pull the tranny to do that, correct?
Again, I think think the torque converter is locking up just fine. It doesn't raise RPMs until I push the switch to kick it out of overdrive (it essentially downshifts). But then, as Buckshotram surmised, it reaches 2200 RPM, which is about 55 mph with the overdrive switch disengaged, and won't gain any more RPM's. (Sounds like the govenor spring issue).
I have a lot of research to do. My real problem now is not so much in knowing what to do, but in how to do it. I will search for parts on line, and read old threads and links this forum a lot. Any suggestions of where to shop?
I am looking forward to starting on the task of upgrading the truck. Should be fun!
Cougsfan
06-29-2007, 04:24 PM
#14
believe me, i was in ur spot alittle while ago. I still don't know alot, but I know enough with the help from people on this board that I feel comfortable doing the work. The fuel plate is somthing u can do for free. I ground mine to a 100 plate which fuels harder than the 10 plate. But the 10 plate is a good overall plate, and ur truck should have the 180hp pump, mine has the 160 pump so I bet a 10 plate in ur truck will feel like a 100 plate in mine. But before you do any mods, u should get those gauges. You don't need a fuel pressure gauge, just EGT(pyrometer) and boost since u have a trans temp already. There's a good thread someone just posted in the performence section on how to grind ur fuel plate. ill try to find that.
how to grind ur plate
https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...d.php?t=157359
The Gsk is $95 from www.Citydiesel.net
The IC boot is a intercooler boot, the thing that connects ur intake tube's to the intercooler, they can get a hole and cause a leak and low power.
Torque converters and VB do cost, I think u can get decents ones together for about $1200. maybe less or more depending on what u get. It's not hard to drop the auto trans.
For now, just get gauges, Grind ur stock fuel plate to a 10, Install the 3gsk, and if u can afford it right now, upgrade the trans with a TC and VB. And once the power bug hits you, come back for a bigger turbo, injectors, dv's, and so on, lol.
how to grind ur plate
https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...d.php?t=157359
The Gsk is $95 from www.Citydiesel.net
The IC boot is a intercooler boot, the thing that connects ur intake tube's to the intercooler, they can get a hole and cause a leak and low power.
Torque converters and VB do cost, I think u can get decents ones together for about $1200. maybe less or more depending on what u get. It's not hard to drop the auto trans.
For now, just get gauges, Grind ur stock fuel plate to a 10, Install the 3gsk, and if u can afford it right now, upgrade the trans with a TC and VB. And once the power bug hits you, come back for a bigger turbo, injectors, dv's, and so on, lol.
06-29-2007, 04:26 PM
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just search in performance section gsk, #10 fuel plate, tc lockup switch.
lockup switch took me 10 minutes, gsk took me around an hour and my homemade plate took around 20 minutes. i am not a stranger to a wrench, so it might take you a little longer but if i was you i would search it here and go in the tst products link. it is just a little trickier for you since you have the re and i have the rh. but the gsk isn't hard either if you have a little patience, the fuel plate is a little harder if it's never been off, there is a breakoff screw that sorta is a pita.
lockup switch took me 10 minutes, gsk took me around an hour and my homemade plate took around 20 minutes. i am not a stranger to a wrench, so it might take you a little longer but if i was you i would search it here and go in the tst products link. it is just a little trickier for you since you have the re and i have the rh. but the gsk isn't hard either if you have a little patience, the fuel plate is a little harder if it's never been off, there is a breakoff screw that sorta is a pita.