hi all,<br>i have a few extra bucks just burning a hole in my pocket.i have decided that the money will be best spent on my dodge,what else would i do with it,spend it on the wife. <br>anyways,i am looking into injectors.i am considering going with a set of bosch 300.i would like 370's but i have heard the stock delivery valves can't supply these at WOT.i can't afford to do both,so i plan on just doing the injectors.i have been told to have the delivery valves ground down if i can't afford new ones.<br>any and all comments would be appreciated. ;D<br><br>mike<br>

 

Given that you have an automatic, I would bypass swapping the injectors and contact DTT for some transmission upgrades.<br><br>Your transmission in stock form will not handle the output of either injector upgrade if you keep your timing at 17 degrees.<br><br>Regarding the delivery valves, the 370's will be adequately supported by the small delivery valves on the automatic transmission engine. <br><br>If you really want to toy with the injection, call Al at Piers and have a chat with him about their 370's.

 

RCW,<br>thanks for the reply.i have already had the tranny worked on.i am using a torque converter that was developed by jeff garmen and a tranny shop here in atl.it designed for pulling and the occasional drag race.there are a few of us here in the atl. area that are using this T/C .with various levels of performance upgrades(250 - 500hp).so far it has handled everything we have thrown at it. i am very pleased.;D ;D<br><br>mike

 

I have the Piers 370's and 191 delivery valves. Its a lot of fuel and sure doesn't take long to run the pyro up. I added a 16 turbo housing and helped a lot. Your delivery valves in the 97 should work o-k with the 370's.<br>Michael

 

Michael, <br>What is your mileage with the deliverys and 370's?

 

I always get 19-20 everyday driving.<br>Michael

 

Dont dink around wth the 300 marine injectors. Go straight to the 370's. The 300's use or have four spray holes at around 12 thou each. The spraying angle is about 10 degrees to wide as well. The 370's spraying angle is too wide also, but the net nnegative effect is lower. Why, is a long answer. <br><br>On the delivery valves: I tried the 191's with a 215HP pump and they gave no additional HP in the top rpm range. <br>Extra smoke was about it. The turbo spool up is somewhat better but not because you can get extra fuel injected when you want it, but because they cause the injector needle to bounce in its seat. This bounce is caused by the pressure waves that travel along the injection line after the injection event has ceased.<br>As the needle bounces, it slobbers a bit of fuel into the cylinder very late in the combustion cycle. This fuel only partially combusts and the remaining fire and energy travel through the exhaust valve and into the turbine. This is what gives the extra spool up in the lower rpm range. <br><br>These 191's and modified delivery valves do not add top HP numbers, but I have not seen any evidence they take any away either. I dynoed the 181's and 191's back to back on my truck on the same day and lost about 2HP on the first run and was dead even on the second run. This tells me the valves did nothing for top performance or took anything away.<br><br>So, the extra smoke and dirty idle was not worth it to me. <br>Drag racers who want the extra spool up can benefit. So could sled pullers. Not street driven trucks in my opinion.<br><br>Don~<br><br><br>

 

So in your opinion Don, will 370's work fine with the stock delivery valves in my 160hp pump? and I won't gain much, if any by adding 191's?

 

The little baby pump does not suffer from a smaller relief area in the delivery valve alone. It has a host of other issues like a lame pump cam profile that kills the fill time and static timing built into the plungers. The 191's seem to be a partial band -aid in the fix for the large injector delivery rates of the 370's and the small relief area in the 160 delivery valves. Maybe its a partial fix. I have no personal experience with them in the 160 pump myself. What you are doing when you change the smaller 160HP injector with an area of about 66% percent higher with the 370's is change the effective flow area of the nozzle and its opening and closing times considerablly from a pump that is designed around a tiny injector in the first place. The reason the 215HP pumps dont freak out when they are subjected to a set of 370's is the effecitve area of the stock 215HP injector is already close to the 370 in size and nozzle flow.

Don~

 

My experience with the 191 delivery valves was that they are very smokey and really raised my egt's Took them out and put the 181's back in. The power increase with the 191's was not worth the smoke and temps. If you have a 215hp pump don't bother with the 191's ;D

 

Rebel is right on the 215 pump .... but you will need the 191's in the 160 pump. You can get by with a set of 181's. Not all 160 pumps are the same .. some have 131's and some have 167's. You will get a stumble around 12-1300 RPM's with the smaller delivery valves in the 160 pump. If you can't afford to do both then put 215's in and you won't have any trouble.

 

mbatterson:<br><br>I agree with what Don M., Rammin ON and everyone else<br>has told you. Like Don said, &quot;go with the 370's!&quot; Both<br>Rammin On and myself have them and he has a &quot;160&quot;<br>P7100 pump while I have the 180. I can tell you that<br>his truck ROCKS! We &quot;race&quot; pretty regularly and if it<br>were not for the fact that my fueling is set higher<br>and I have a Piers' HX-40 he and I would be very,<br>very close! Of course, he waiting for his &quot;super 913&quot;<br>pump to come back from Scheid Diesel and I fully<br>expect that when that finally gets installed that I<br>will be in trouble! ;D<br><br>Good luck!<br><br>---------<br>John_P

 

hi all,<br>thanks to everyone for thier response.i will be going with the 370's.i am working on a trade with someone that wants to go back to 300's.if that doesn't pan out,i will start looking for the best prices on a set of 370's.any suggestions on where to buy would be appreciated.i will post again in a week or so with the final results.i plan on having this done when Jeff Garmon has his open house/grand opening at Garmon Diesel Performance on the 7th(shameless plug ;D).<br><br>mike

 

My little 160 pump caused the 1300 rpm stumble when I installed the 370's. My delivery valves were the 131's and I changed them out to the 191's. Runs great now, and a 16 housing helped a lot with egt's and smoke.<br>Michael

 

m batterson:<br>I have the 160 pump and 370's. I love them. I had a bit of a stumble at first, but I replaced the overflow valve, and the stumble was gone.<br>The truck pulls great all the way to 3200.<br>george