MarkT

I just bought a '97 5 speed with a re-manufactured transmission in it from Engine and Transmission exchange. I called them and they say they have a tool that helps hold the stock ring nut so the can torque it up to the correct 250 (?) lb-ft of torque. Then they green Loctite (#290) the nut. I know that 290 is made for setting sleeves or bearing and is supposed to be a super locker. Anyone have good luck with doing it this way?

Another interesting (but heart stopping) fact I found out about my new truck-after I got it. The last owner had the KDP break the case when he was on the road and lightly drove the last 10 miles with red light on and fluctuating oil pressure of 0-40 depending upon the slant of the road. It had only about 2-3 quarts left when he got home. He thought (hoping?) it was a failing sender because the water temperature did not change.

Talked to the mechanic that repaired it (who did not know about the 10 miles) and he told me that there was no indication of the motor running with no oil pressure-- cam and cam bearing looked great, gears looked great, rockers look fine when he set the valves, starts great every time. He even drove it for 500 miles and always had 40 psi or a tad more. Compression is 350 psi on all 6 so no single cylinder scoring (this OK for 240K miles-no strong blow by so far?), oil drained out during repair showed no speckles in the drain pan or in his storage drain screen. Even the owner who drove that 10 miles said that when he pored more oil in it the next day and started it up it ran 40 psi at idle cold and at full temperature. The mechanic believes it is a strong truck for the miles.

I broke my left foot (another story) just as I got it so I have no miles on it myself but it starts right up, idles dead on, and 40 psi at idle.

According to a few long time diesel mechanics I talked to- these 12V's are tuff enough to withstand the no load 10 miles of fluctuating oil pressure. Anyone had his or her motor survive that kind abuse? I will probably drive it and run and oil analysis on it before I start towing with it.

One last thing- is there a total of two or three alignment pins to assure alignment of the timing case- my manual has not come yet?

Thanks

1stGen545

I have #290 on mine now. so far so good. Your truck will be fine.

MarkT

thank-

I thought #290 was a good solution- I just did not find it in the archives- most use the new clamp nut or weld.

Now if my oil pressure remains high I will be towing.

Fueling around

Only 2 dowel pins on the case. That's why you need to replace the little bugger if it happens to fall out without causing any serious damage.
I've used retaining compounds with varying success on other set ups than a NV4500. Hopefully, the rebuilders selected a mainshaft - 5th gear combo that fits very tight. Any slop in the fit and it will pound the nut until it loosens.

MarkT

Thanks John-

I though it only had two pins-that is all you would need to hold the case in the correct place on the block before you put the bolts in. Not sure why he told me three.

So you think I should go back and remove the cover and put in another pin? Even it is perfectly aligned now I sort of like the pin in there to take shear loads even though with 5 correctly torqued bolts this should not be an issue.

As counterpoint-if the crank seal does not leak do you still think that the case would need the pin since the seal/case/cover/ must be aligned in the correct position? It looks like the oil pan also would help align the case if you had at least one pin in the block.---I will probably go in anyway (I bought the TST kit and a pin) but it does seem that if you are careful you can align the case pretty good without the second pin. On the assembly line, without the oil pan on, it would be mandatory and quicker having two pins

Concerning the 5th gear--I am hoping that the 100K warranty (that just ran out) indicates that ETE has a handle on this problem-- With good torque- green loctite seemed like an easy solution but I was wondering why it was never mentioned in past 5th gear threads if it did indeed work.

patdaly

Mark, I am slightly confused here, did they replace the timing case or not?

If they had replaced the timing case they would have installed both dowel pins, and assuming they used a new case, it should have had dowel pin retention built into the case. I would check with the mechanic who did the work.

As to the 290, it is really good stuff, but is a wicking action threadlocker, not bearing mount, I believe 690 is the bearing mount. ( Green just like the 290 though )

MarkT

Pat-

No- they put on a good used case they pulled off another older 12v motor that they had in the shop.

I assume that he set the case on using the single dowel pin that I believe is located at the bottom driver's side corner near the oil pan and then used a tapered awl or even a drill bit to align the case before he put in the bolts and torqued them down. At least that is what I would have done if I did not have a dowel pin handy to pound in. If you have the bottom pin you can rotated the case and then insert the drill bit to get a pretty close alignment. He never replaces the pin when he replaces cases - he feels that it is not needed once you align and tighten down the bolts to the block and to the oil pan.

I wish I could ask the mechanic more questions but after a few questions you know you that you are taking up time that he could be making money-- so I respect that -so after the first discussion where he said that there was three pins I am not going to press him. I figure he said three to get me down the road.

If the #290 migrates and wicks the width of the ring nut after it is torqued it sounds like a good way to go. It appears that this could be a good option but I have never seen it mentioned on any diesel board.

thanks--do you have any feel if 350 psi compression is a good number?

patdaly

Mark, I'm a diesel newbie also, but 350 PSI seems in the ballpark.

I would like to say that 1 dowel will hold, but especially since they used an old gearcase, I would go in and add the correct dowel and KDP tab it. I know it may never bite you, but the way these things shake, and the number of people who have reported less than tight retaining bolts when they went in ot do the KDP fix....... Well, it would make me feel much warmer and fuzzier inside.

MarkT

Pat-

Well I have the TST tab kit and the dowel on my shelf so I am tempted. I cannot work on it for at least a month until my foot heals from the broken bone. Frustrating since you have to be able to stand for most of the work. Crutches do not cut it.

The 350 could be fine since it is even on all 6 --but from the threads it looks like there is no published number since Cummins uses a blow by test to assess the condition of the rings.

So aside from having to go back in to replace the pin to avoid any future problems, this motor may have dodged a bullet breaking the case and then running for 10 miles with 0 oil pressure much of the time.

I have not heard from any of the Diesel mechanics on the list so I may be fooling myself about this.

patdaly

Mark, I could be wrong, time always seems to prove that, but I would have no issue trusting your truck. The pressures that these things are under seem to show any weaknesses pretty doggone quick. You are right, I have been through all my recon manuals even and have found no published spec.

Don't feel bad, I have a new radiator and the KDP kit also, been setting for a month waiting for time to do the job!

MarkT

Pat-

Judging from what my truck went through because of the KDP I would be ansy to kill your KPD before too much time goes by--But then again I am a poster boy for Murphy's Law.

Yes- from the way my truck starts and the fact that it already has 500 miles on the fix with good oil pressure I believe it will be fine to tow with it. I will trust it more when I can drive it myself for a few months.