I am in desperate need of timing my motor but can't justify the snap-on tools or the $200+ that the only local shop I trust wants to do it. I have a precision dial gauge with magnetic base that I have used many times to measure cam lobes and the like on gassers with success my question is do I really need the adapter that holds the snap on dial indicator or the delivery valve socket. It sounds hack but wouldn't a gentle pipe wrench loosen the delivery valve just fine then use the magnetic base and dial indicator to measure the lift?

Let me know if you think this is a good, bad or really bad idea!

 

i cant help you with your question
but if you do try it can you take pix and write the steps down
and post back

thanks

bruce

 

People do it all the time without the special tools. You may have to fabricate a base out of flat steel that you can bolt to the engine to hold the indicator.
You're also going to have to come up with a way to pull the timing gear.

 

okay that gives me enough confidence after searching a lot more I did find a few people referring to doing it on the cheap. I'll give it a try here shortly, as far as pulling the gear between a settering wheel puller, a balancer puller and a lot of scrap steel laying around I am sure I can figure something out. I still may buy a delivery valve socket so I can torque it correctly or maybe I won't.

thanks

 

you can buy the tool to pull the timing gear through snap on by itself
Snap on # SP504 It's only $27.45
The major cost of the kit is the dial indicator at over $150
If you have the gauge, you can buy the following and have the same set only cheaper

SP5002 Gauge holder $21.35 Page 339
SP503 Spline socket $35.29 Page 339
SP504 Gear puller $27.45 Page 339

Besides the dial gauge, thats all the kit consists of.

Hope this helps

 

you can buy the tool to pull the timing gear through snap on by itself
Snap on # SP504 It's only $27.45
The major cost of the kit is the dial indicator at over $150
If you have the gauge, you can buy the following and have the same set only cheaper

SP5002 Gauge holder $21.35 Page 339
SP503 Spline socket $35.29 Page 339
SP504 Gear puller $27.45 Page 339

Besides the dial gauge, thats all the kit consists of.

Hope this helps

 

Gotta put my 2 cents worth in here. I just got done doing the timing thing. See my post "Basic delivery valve question" in this forum.

I did buy the delivery valve socket from snap on. It was worth the money. You run a great risk of chewing up the DV holder. Mine was really tight and I needed to use an extension bar on my ratchet. I highly reccommend the socket.

The dial gauge and magnetic base will work. It was really ackward sticking the base to the manifold. Just not long enough with my set up. So a piece of metal bolted to a threaded hole in the manifold (you will find it by the wires that go to the intake grid heater) will help alot. Play around with it before you actually pull the delivery valve. Less chance of dirt getting in there. Once you confident of your set up. Then go to town.

I ended wasting a day messing with mine. Then I got ticked and removed the fan, the fan shroud, and of course the washer bottle and coolant recovery bottle. This gave me lots of room to reach my wrench on the balancer. This is how you will turn the engine in the forward or normal direction. You use the alternator bolt to go in the backwards or reverse normal rotation. While it's an extra 1/2 hour to pull the fan and shroud, it made life alot easier.

The fuel line needs to be removed. Which means the little brackets need to come off. The tough one was the bracket under the air plenum above the manifold. This bracket holds the 4 lines. Then then are two more that hold 2 lines together. You will find them. Don't try and bend the line out of the way. Remember there is alot of pressure in those lines! Don't bend them and by the way, let the truck sit for a few minutes before cracking the lines so the pressure will bleed off.

The only real tricky part is alignment of the needle on the dial gauge with the part that moves up and down in the delivery valve holder. It moves at an angle, so set up is tricky. I ended up using a spacer to help. Just make sure whatever you use will not scratch anything. Brass or hard plastic will help.

I have some instructions that someone else e-mailed me. They helped alot. If you want them let me know. Also on my "Basic delivery valve question" post, read about the gauge holder I "made" out of an oil drain plug. It might help, but, I admit I only used it to check my final measurements. Adjustments had allready been done.

A simple steering wheel puller from autozone for 10.00 bucks is fine. Just make sure it is not to long of a center bolt because it will hit the radiator. Also put a magnet under the nut and washer that holds the gear on. If you drop that, your in deep doo doo.

I'm sure you already read that you should really clean the tapered shaft and gear with contact cleaner. And, a little bit of adjustment goes along way. I went from 14 degrees to 15.75 by moving only an eigth of an inch. Coat the delivery valve, and the o-ring with 80/90 weight rear diff fluid for reassembly.

Almost forgot, you need to determine top dead center and mark you balancer first, before you do anything with the timing. If not already done, do a search on this. The drop valve method is probably a good way to go. I marked my balancer with the edge of the sensor above the balancer. Makes it easy that way.

Hope this helps, probably forgot a few things, let me know if you need any other info. Kevin

 

Are there any charts for the different pumps that show how many millimeters of lift is how many degrees?

 

Her ya go. http://www.piersdiesel.com/TechPTiming.htm But remember you need to use the numbers that correlate with your cpl number (number is found on your injection pump).

Also need to convert to decimal inches if your uses a standard inch dial gauge. The ones that come in the timing kits are in mm. Simple conversion, to convert mm to inches: mm X 0.03937=inches

I think dodgeram.org lists the timing specs as well. Good luck, Kevin

 

Here you go
http://dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/FAQ/timing.htm

 

I just completed timing my truck last night (while doing the KDP fix). I'd purchased a delivery valve socket a couple of weeks ago from Pier's, and I'm glad I had --- the delivery valve was tight! I'm not sure I could have removed with a pipe wrench without damaging it. I already had a dial indicator and magnetic base on-hand, but after working, unsuccessfully, for a hour or so to get a stable set-up, I ordered a guage holder from Snap-on's website. I ordered it on Friday PM --- UPS dropped it off on Tueday. It definitely made the job a lot easier and increased my confidence that I was getting accurate readings. I did, however, have to super-glue two dial indicator spindle extensions together to make the spindle long enough to extend through the guage holder and down into the bottom of the delivery valve holder. I just used a harmonic balancer puller to pull the gear. I've heard that some the gears a really tight, but mine pulled pretty easily.

Bottom line: I've very "thrifty" (cheap?), but I'm glad I spent the extra $60 to get the delivery valve socket and guage holder.

 

Get a delivery valve socket! Those things are torqued to 84-86 lbs-ft, so trying to get it on and off with a pipe wrench, you're gonna screw it up.

 

I agree DV socket is a must, next would be gauge holder, and then probably barring tool (in that order of priority). Almost forgot, a 6 pack of Guinness should be on the top of the list! Kevin

 

Thanks for the info. Will timing help alot on power in a 180 auto motor? Mine has a 0 plate 370 injectors, and 4000 gsk as of tonight. Man it really brought it to life! I was thinking about around 17 to 18.5 on timing. What do you think? This sight sure does help on stuff a person doesn't know.

 

gwhammy, the timing will give you more power from about 1500 rpms on up, with a slight loss in power from below 1500. Personally I think it's splitting hairs. I really noticed a power improvement while OD is locked out going about 45 MPH. When I am locked in 3rd, I give it pedal, and it really goes. From what I have read, the timing change is noticed more when a truck has been bombed (like yours). I would be a little careful on how much timing. 17 or 18.5 might be a little high. Can run into head gasket issues.

Do alot of reading, most of the "Gurus" (meaning the guys who really know there stuff), agree that 16 is about max. I believe I read on piers website that even 15 was max. But everyone has to make there own decision and every ones opinions vary.

I hope you have gauges, and the timing change will bring down your egt's a little. Good luck, Kevin